Ampersand Studio - Master and Commander

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Ampersand Studio - Master and Commander

1jsg1976
Edited: Mar 4, 2023, 2:57 pm

Ampersand Studio just announced that they are doing a fine press version of Patrick O’Brian’s Master and Commander, launching on Kickstarter on Tuesday. From the email:

We are delighted to announce our next project: a fine press edition of Patrick O’Brian’s novel Master and Commander. O’Brian’s work is filled with humanity, wit and erudition. Its exploration of friendship, social history, and colliding and changing worlds makes it a masterpiece.

We have spent months working with the Patrick O’Brian Literary Estate, the U.S. and Commonwealth publishers of O’Brian’s work, the National Museum of the Royal Navy, and artists and artisans from across the globe to plan a remarkable new edition that will feature…

- A new design and layout letterpress printed in two colors on fine European laid paper
- 13 new illustrations by maritime artist Carlos Kirovsky
- A hand-crafted binding using the finest artisanal materials
- … and on our Lettered Edition, covers made from wood salvaged from HMS Victory, Admiral Nelson’s flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar.

2edkennedy
Mar 4, 2023, 12:10 am

I'll certainly be interested in the edition, but using wood from a historic vessel strikes me as tacky.

3jsg1976
Edited: Mar 4, 2023, 12:19 am

>2 edkennedy: to each his own, of course, but it’s not uncommon in the fine collectibles space. Arion Press just did it for Sea of Cortez. And outside of books, Bremont does it with watches. I’ve seen it with fine pens. Just to name a few examples.

4edkennedy
Mar 4, 2023, 12:29 am

>3 jsg1976: I don't think there's anything "fine" about it. Gimmick just obscures real artistry and craft.

5mnmcdwl
Mar 4, 2023, 2:41 am

I own the deluxe Arion Press edition of Sea of Cortez, and the use of wood from the Western Flyer in the box is far from gimmicky in my opinion. Would the book suffer without it? Probably not, but still, a tangible connection to the writer and his journey is a nice addition. As for me, I love books about the sea, and am certainly interested this edition of Master and Commander. I’ll be following closely its launch.

6DMulvee
Mar 4, 2023, 3:22 am

I have the full series from the Folio Society so this will be a pass from me

7SF-72
Mar 4, 2023, 4:07 am

>1 jsg1976:

Do you have a link for this? I'd be quite interested and usually there's a link you can register at for Kickstarters before they start.

8DMulvee
Mar 4, 2023, 4:21 am

>7 SF-72: Substack subscribers can access a pre-launch access on Kickstarter on Sunday, so subscribe to that before then

9grifgon
Mar 4, 2023, 11:59 am

I couldn't be more excited about Ampersand Studio! It's such a joy to bask in Mr. Reader's expertise and love of the craft.

10AmpersandBookStudio
Mar 4, 2023, 2:11 pm

Thanks for starting this thread.

I am excited to announce our newest project: a fine press edition of Patrick O'Brian's novel, "Master and Commander." Hailed by the New York Times Book Review as "The best historical novels ever written," O’Brian’s work is filled with humanity, wit and erudition. Its exploration of friendship, social history, and colliding and changing worlds makes it a masterpiece.

We have spent many months working with the Patrick O’Brian Literary Estate, the U.S. and Commonwealth publishers of O’Brian’s work, the National Museum of the Royal Navy, and artists and artisans from across the globe to plan a remarkable new edition that will feature…
• A new design and layout, letterpress printed in two colors on fine European laid paper
• 13 new illustrations by maritime artist Carlos Kirovsky
• A hand-crafted binding using the same design-language, techniques, and artisanal materials used in Georgian England
• … and on our Lettered Edition, covers made from wood salvaged from HMS Victory, Admiral Nelson’s flagship at the Battle of Trafalgar.

Kickstarter launch will be on Tuesday, March 7. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ampersandbookstudio/master-and-commander-fi...

For early access to the Kickstarter campaign, follow us for free on our blog: https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/

11gmacaree
Mar 5, 2023, 2:57 am

How exciting! I am not certain I will be buying the book itself — I've managed to collect the whole Folio set — but I'll definitely find a way to support the project in some way.

12TheTotalLibrarian
Mar 5, 2023, 5:24 am

>10 AmpersandBookStudio: I've just seen the early access KickStarter notification and these two editions look really attractive. The blue marbled papers on the Anchor edition are just beautiful. The wooden boards on the Victory edition are a master-stroke, and very attractive to me as they are reminiscent of the boards on the original (and facsimile) editions of Aurora Australis. It deserves to be a great success!

13EdmundRodriguez
Mar 5, 2023, 8:07 am

Does anyone know what the planned page size is for the edition?

Love wooden boards, although I tend to prefer the wood left bare (i.e. without any engraving).

14What_What
Mar 5, 2023, 8:20 am

Looks like a great production, and >4 edkennedy: I don’t see anything gimmicky about it at all - whose bright idea was it to use the skin of dead animals to bind books together. Doesn’t seem so far fetched to use wood, especially with such an indelible link to the book.

15Rabbitknitter
Mar 5, 2023, 9:15 am

I think both of these editions look superb and I look forward to reading more about the progress of the project on the blog.

16jsg1976
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 9:21 am

>10 AmpersandBookStudio: I kept getting an error message when I tried to leave comments on the draft Kickstarter, so I’ll add them here:

1) the total cost of each edition isn’t listed anywhere. Sure, people can do the math, but why not be up front about it? I’d much rather see the total and be told you’re only collecting half up front, instead of being disappointed when I read the (all caps) fine print to find out the total cost was 2x what is shown as the pledge amount.

2) as >13 EdmundRodriguez: said, it’d be nice to know the size of the books and the clamshell.

3) will there be a slipcase if you don’t order the clamshell? Or an option for one?

17dlphcoracl
Mar 5, 2023, 10:02 am

Random comments:

1. This is an excellent idea for a private press edition and both the Anchor Edition and the HMS Victory Edition will sell out quickly.

2. The Anchor Edition looks strikingly similar (to my eye, anyway) to the Chester River Press edition of Heart of Darkness with Marc Castelli's illustrations.

3. At $2,700., the HMS Victory Edition of 27 copies must be weighed carefully against what the other private press options (both past and present) are in this price range. If Master and Commander is not one of your all-time favorite novels it requires a bit of thought and comparison shopping. For example, would you rather have the Ampersand Studio HMS Victory Edition or:

a. Thought from the Letters of Petrarch, vellum/parchment edition, Petrarch Press (20 copies).
b. Minor Poems by Edmund Spenser (e.g., Epithalamion, Prothalamion, the Shepherd's Calendar), Ashendene Press (note: a fabulous book!).
c. The Arion Press edition of any of the following: Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino, Poems of W.B. Yeats with Richard Diebenkorn illustrations, Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov.

18wongie
Mar 5, 2023, 11:12 am

The use of the HMS Victory wood seems rather tasteful to me, way out of my price range though.

I own the full FS set but I'll almost certainly be picking up an Anchor edition. I love the series but it really is for the series as a whole rather than for any individual book so it'll be a bit of strange book to own; the first in the series sitting on the shelf by itself unlikely to be finished in its entirety (and a rather hefty costly investment if it ever does) and not exactly my favourite of the series but still having sentimental value for being the start of it.

19SF-72
Mar 5, 2023, 11:46 am

>16 jsg1976:

Thank you for mentioning that. I'd promptly misunderstood the information. I thought this was the complete price and that it wouldn't be collected in one go. That's what you get for looking at something like this in a hurry.

20edkennedy
Mar 5, 2023, 11:46 am

Did anyone here serve in the Navy? Would you find it "tasteful" to sell off bits and pieces of the vessel on which you served to wealthy people as collectibles?

21CTPress-Tony
Mar 5, 2023, 12:05 pm

>20 edkennedy: The way you explain it seems a bit disingenuous. The full explanation, for those who may not have access to the Kickstarter preview, is:

“ The iroko wood comes from below-deck planking of HSM Victory, salvaged as part of the largest restoration program in her history. It is certified by the National Museum of the Royal Navy, and a portion of the sale of each box supports their efforts to ensure that Victory continues her long service for many years to come.”

Everything about the production and Kickstarter seems very well thought out and looks great.

22wongie
Edited: Apr 8, 2023, 12:16 pm

This message has been deleted by its author.

23grifgon
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 12:34 pm

>20 edkennedy: Presumably the Royal Navy or stewards of the ship itself sold or gave the wood for the project; they're the real judge I think. I doubt Ampersand Studio snuck aboard at night and pilfered it with a crowbar...

I can't wait to follow the production of this edition. I'm also excited by the use of Original Crown Mill, which is a terrific paper too rarely used in bookmaking. It takes letterpress well, and is fitting for the period of the novel. All around: Eleven exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!

24wooter
Mar 5, 2023, 12:35 pm

how does one access the kickstarter preview? I cant seem to find it on their substack.

25ultrarightist
Mar 5, 2023, 12:36 pm

>23 grifgon: Is Original Crown Mill a mould-made paper?

26grifgon
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 12:42 pm

>25 ultrarightist: No. It's a machine-made stationery. Because it's stationery paper, it's quite crisp despite being lighter weight (~100gsm, Zerkall by comparison is ~150gsm) and there will probably be a watermark on every page or every other page, unless Ampersand has somehow managed to get a custom order placed or is using a stock which I'm unfamiliar with.

27What_What
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 12:52 pm

>25 ultrarightist: In addition to what’s said above, this is taken from the Kickstarter:

For the Limited Anchor Edition, we have selected one of the finest laid papers made today: 100gsm laid paper in cream color from Belgium's Original Crown Mill. Often used for fine stationery, this paper was inspired by the papers made by the Manufacture Royale for centuries.

And the paper for the lettered:
Handmade Paper – For over 400 years, the craftspeople at the Velke Losiny paper mill in the Czech Republic have been hand-crafting paper one sheet at a time. For this edition, we are working with them to make a bespoke 120gsm laid paper that will be created exclusively for this edition of Master and Commander. 85% cotton and 15% linen, this paper will feature a custom watermark that will only ever be used for this edition, and it will be made to our specific size requirements, allowing us to create a book with a natural deckled edge on head, tail and fore edge of the book.

28ultrarightist
Mar 5, 2023, 1:22 pm

>26 grifgon: and >27 What_What:

Thanks. Are laid papers and mould-made papers mutually exclusive categories?

29grifgon
Mar 5, 2023, 1:27 pm

>28 ultrarightist: No. Laid refers to the ribbed texture caused naturally or created artificially during the manufacture; mould-made refers to the manufacturing process itself.

I've been chatting with Tristan at Ampersand all morning, geeking out on the details of the edition, so I can clarify a bit of the above: The paper is a custom order from Original Crown Mill, sized at 10.5'' by 14.5''. (In turn, that means the page size for the book is 7.25'' by 10.5''.)

30ultrarightist
Mar 5, 2023, 1:34 pm

>29 grifgon: Thank you for the additional information.

> 17 "The Anchor Edition looks strikingly similar (to my eye, anyway) to the Chester River Press edition of Heart of Darkness with Marc Castelli's illustrations."

Hmmm...I don't see that. In the sample pages, I am reminded of the AP Moby Dick. I do not mean to suggest that it will reach those magisterial heights of the book arts, but there is something about the page design that is reminiscent of it, at least to me.

31Glacierman
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 2:17 pm

Am I understanding this correctly: the Bookbinder's edition in sheets costs more than the bound Anchor edition?

If so, that's backwards, as usually copies in sheets are less than bound copies.

Or am I misunderstanding?

32jsg1976
Edited: Mar 5, 2023, 2:49 pm

>31 Glacierman: bookbinders edition is $350 (two payments of $175); anchor is $650 (payments of $325, $160, and $165)

33LBShoreBook
Mar 5, 2023, 3:11 pm

>20 edkennedy: Did anyone here serve in the Navy? Would you find it "tasteful" to sell off bits and pieces of the vessel on which you served to wealthy people as collectibles?

I served on, and am a plankowner of, DDG 52, an Aegis Destroyer commissioned in 1992 and coming to the end of its useful life in the Navy. It will invariably be scrapped when decommissioned. Would I think it cool if someone found a way to incorporate steel from that hull into a cool project that honors the legacy of that ship? Yes.

34trentsteel
Mar 5, 2023, 3:21 pm

What time does it launch? I see Tuesday but may have missed a time.

35whytewolf1
Mar 5, 2023, 3:59 pm

>34 trentsteel: I'd love to know, too, but I don't think they've said

36AmpersandBookStudio
Mar 5, 2023, 6:33 pm

>34 trentsteel: We are scheduled to launch at 9:00am (Arizona time) on Tuesday. This is 8:00am on the west coast and 11:00am on the east coast. I believe it is 16:00 in the U.K. Feel free to reach out directly if you have other questions: info@ampersandbookstudio.com. Thanks for your interest!

37wongie
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 11:06 am

5 minutes and it's already 3/4s to its goal.

I've pledged to the Anchor edition and every single optional extra barring the two for in-pages. I've gotten very excited for this since the draft page.

38LBShoreBook
Mar 7, 2023, 11:06 am

>36 AmpersandBookStudio: Nice presentation on the Kickstarter campaign.

39MobyRichard
Mar 7, 2023, 11:22 am

Looks great! I just can never pull the trigger on preorders. Not when there are so many books I want "right now" :p.

40jsg1976
Mar 7, 2023, 11:23 am

How much would it cost to have a bookbinder create a binding similar to the one the campaign is using?

You can buy a copy in sheets, with the upgraded paper and the matching endpapers, for less than the cost of an Anchor edition. So I’m just wondering if for a few hundred dollars more, I could basically create my own lettered edition for a fraction of the cost. But I’ve never gone down that road.

41EdmundRodriguez
Mar 7, 2023, 11:40 am

>40 jsg1976: I was thinking about that, but bottled it and went for the anchor edition instead! Not sure what it would cost.

42MobyRichard
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 11:54 am

>40 jsg1976:

Mmm...I think you need to do more research. Creating a custom one of a kind "lettered edition" would cost far more than you're thinking. Even a plain leather binding with minimal gold tooling would cost you at least $300 if you're talking a mom and pop bindery. Given the paper size, probably more than that. If you were to go to one of the the big binderies (Bayntun, Chelsea, etc.) except to pay a lot more than $300 (Last I recall, both start at $600+). Again we're talking the most basic goatskin bindings.

43astropi
Mar 7, 2023, 12:01 pm

>40 jsg1976: I'd say your base price is $200. Depending on the leather and details you wish to have included in the binding, it could easily be $400-500. That said, still less than the cost of a lettered edition.

44GusLogan
Mar 7, 2023, 12:09 pm

>43 astropi:
And unlikely to ever be sold at a price reflecting this spending - though I applaud anyone who gives no consideration to this aspect!

45Shadekeep
Mar 7, 2023, 12:15 pm

Very handsome production. If I were into the book I'd leap at it. Deserves to be a success. And nice to see wooden covers on a nautical book, since I proposed the same for my Consensus Press title. ^_^

46What_What
Mar 7, 2023, 1:01 pm

>43 astropi: Granted, any private binding, even in wood, isn’t exactly comparable to the lettered because of the latter’s use of wood from the HMS victory. The lettered price also includes the enclosure, made of the same wood as well.

You could very much end up with a binding that looks similar, for much less, but it wouldn’t be the same.

47astropi
Mar 7, 2023, 1:32 pm

Over $41,000 pledged. The early-bird Anchor is gone.

48gmacaree
Mar 7, 2023, 1:36 pm

If money were no object, I'd get the Victory edition (although it's weird to me that a book mostly set on a 14-gun brig has a 'Victory' edition). As money is not no object, I have settled for the broadside, which I'll have framed and displayed next to my Folio set.

49MobyRichard
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 1:52 pm

The binding prices I'm seeing here seem wildly optimistic. There's no binder I know of in the United States or the UK that I would both trust and would be willing to do all that binding work for so little. (it's the full process remember, not just slapping some leather over existing boards and pre-sewn textblock). Decent endpapers alone could cost anywhere from $10 - 30$ (I like chiyogami endpapers myself), just for the paper itself. If someone quotes you $200 total I would run the other way. Also trusthworthy binderies like Bayntun are pretty clear about their base price and it's not at all cheap. Here's a quote from Bayntun's website: "The simplest binding in full leather, without requiring resewing, edge gilding or extra gilt tooling, costs from £500." This is from a big bindery that likely has a bunch of stuff they need for your binding pre-stocked. A smaller bindery would be more likely to have to custom order the color leather you want, endpapers, etc. for you at full retail cost. If they do have to custom order for you, a small skin bought through Talas, for example, costs maybe $80 to $180 just for the leather. They are not going to sell your binder just enough leather for your one book.

50astropi
Mar 7, 2023, 4:16 pm

>49 MobyRichard: You can find good bookbinders that will bind a book for $200 -- but again, that's just the starting price. That does not include tooling, etc. Of course if you opt for some of the truly great bookbinders today such as Ludlow, we're talking hundreds if not more. But again, I've seen good bookbinders that charge $200-300 for basic leather binding. It really depends on what you're aiming. Here is a description from a bookbinder based in Colorado, she charges $200 starting price --

Rebinding in the traditional method using the highest quality leather strengthens any book, and makes it more beautiful. I use traditional leather binding methods with an old fashioned feel, with details including a raised band spine and handmade endpapers. I often use vintage editions when possible, and vintage medallions to adorn the covers. Please contact me before ordering to discuss details and price. Lettering is done in the old fashioned way, with a 19th c. manual letterpress, where each typeset letter is set by hand and gold leafing done by hand.

51L.Bloom
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 4:27 pm

>50 astropi: I had a dream once of purchasing the LEC Plutarch and having it rebound in morocco. Then I inquired around about the cost of such a project...

52NathanOv
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 5:06 pm

>50 astropi: I am not sure if that binder also listed $200 for books in sheets, but this would be a much more involved process than rebinding, including actually folding, collating and cutting the sheets.

53astropi
Edited: Mar 7, 2023, 5:57 pm

>52 NathanOv: Fair question, and the answer is no. This particular binder said she does not do sheets. She only binds hardcover books. Again, it's fairly inexpensive as far as these things go, so $200-300 gets you that. I'm sure other binders will do sheets, but I expect it will be in the $500+ range.

54Glacierman
Mar 7, 2023, 8:16 pm

Most folk who buy a book in sheets are bookbinders and do so with the intention of binding it themselves. There will always be exceptions, of course. As has been noted previously, a bespoke binding of any complexity is a pricey proposition.

55jsg1976
Mar 7, 2023, 9:53 pm

>54 Glacierman: >42 MobyRichard: >43 astropi: Thanks guys. You’ve very efficiently talked me out of it, and I just went with a regular anchor edition. My wallet thanks you.

56Lukas1990
Mar 8, 2023, 1:00 am

>55 jsg1976: The bookbinders guild hates them!

57abysswalker
Mar 8, 2023, 9:11 am

>52 NathanOv: yeah I would be very skeptical of this service. No shade intended, but based on the description the service is probably mostly for customers that want a leather cover on their favorite Stephen King trade edition (or similar).

Anyone hoping for a deal in this regard, just think about what the labor costs alone are for any service that requires expertise and also has a shallow market. And that's before the use of luxury materials.

58astropi
Mar 8, 2023, 3:31 pm

Over $60,000 raised on a $25,000 goal. Looks like there are 27/100 Anchor editions left.

59trentsteel
Mar 8, 2023, 3:42 pm

>58 astropi: was there a slipcase with this one. As I am rereading the description under the rewards section I didn't see one listed.

60JonathanQueale
Mar 8, 2023, 3:43 pm

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61LBShoreBook
Mar 8, 2023, 3:51 pm

>59 trentsteel: clamshell box as an add-on for $150 on standard edition. From what I could tell without the add on no cover for the book.

62Glacierman
Edited: Mar 8, 2023, 6:03 pm

>59 trentsteel: You can have a bespoke slipcase made for 50 bucks or so, maybe less. Members here have many suggestions as to who to go to for one. Mine is Bohemio Bookbindery.

63astropi
Edited: Mar 8, 2023, 5:48 pm

>59 trentsteel: Currently there is no slipcase. Of course, they may announce a slipcase as an add-on later in the campaign. In fact, I highly encourage people to contact Ampersand Studio and ask them to offer a custom slipcase :)

Also, as >61 LBShoreBook: noted there is the clamshell for $150.

64EdmundRodriguez
Mar 9, 2023, 8:36 am

Does Kickstarter take account of the anchor editions included in the "commodore" and "admiral of the fleet" rewards when noting the remaining number of Anchor editions? I.e. it currently shows 22 Anchor editions remaining but I'm not sure if that reflects the 8 editions included in those higher tier rewards (if not then that implies there's only actually 14 remaining).

65Shadekeep
Mar 9, 2023, 8:46 am

>64 EdmundRodriguez: The total distribution is meant to be broken out across the rewards. So say if you offer 50 just-the-book, 20 book-with-poster, and 10 book-with-keepsake, you are offering 80 books. Items purchased from one tier are not supposed to deduct from others.

66coleshafer3
Mar 9, 2023, 8:49 am

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67EdmundRodriguez
Mar 9, 2023, 10:54 am

>65 Shadekeep: so the current Kickstarter actually allows 109 anchor editions to be sold, not the 100 stated limitation. I wonder if that's intentional.

68Shadekeep
Mar 9, 2023, 11:44 am

>67 EdmundRodriguez: That is correct, unless the error is on the part of Ampersand in stating the available quantities. Perhaps a backer can raise the question with them as to the true number of the limitation.

69NathanOv
Mar 9, 2023, 12:22 pm

>68 Shadekeep: it’s fairly common for Kickstarter campaigns to offer the same reward in multiple packages, and simply update inventory as necessary. I assume that’s the case here.

70Shadekeep
Mar 9, 2023, 12:55 pm

>69 NathanOv: I've seen that happen, but in this case all of their relevant tiers have fixed amounts. Unless the have been adjusting one on the fly behind the scenes, they are in real danger of ending up with more orders than the limitation allows. The ones I've backed that offer the same title in different tiers typically have one unrestricted tier, usually the core item, and then limited tiers with various enhancements. This one has every tier limited, thus setting an absolute number on each. Again, they may be reserving slots out of one tier to create a cushion, or hoping the total orders don't exceed the limitation. But that's not very professional in my opinion.

At the moment 87 copies of the Anchor Edition are spoken for, so we'll see if that changes either of the remaining tiers offering it.

71AmpersandBookStudio
Mar 9, 2023, 2:52 pm

Thanks for the feedback on the number of copies offered. In the midst of our first Kickstarter campaign, we have learned that there is no way for us to change the numbers of rewards downward after launch. So we are unable to make this change within Kickstarter.

In this case, here is what we are planning. For those who support us at the Admiral and Commodore levels, we will be creating two very bespoke versions – three copies of the "Admiral's Anchor Edition" and six copies of the "Commodore's Anchor Edition." Each of these copies will feature key changes from the regular edition, including:

1) A separate colophon and numbering page indicating that it is 1 of 3 or 1 of 6 of these special editions.
2) A distinct hand-marbled paper that will be unique to these nine copies and distinct from that used in the "Anchor" Edition.

We think that this is a change that benefits everyone who is so generously supporting us. Feel free to reach out to me directly (info@ampersandbookstudio.com) if you have any questions. Thanks again for your support.

72Shadekeep
Edited: Mar 9, 2023, 2:57 pm

>71 AmpersandBookStudio: Good solution, and I was wondering if perhaps you had something similar in mind, such as numbering these differently. Stating them as special editions within their set covers it nicely.

It's especially nice that backers for these Anchor Editions get a unique marbled paper, too!

73jveezer
Mar 10, 2023, 11:41 am

I just saw a GQ article on the film adaptation and why it's become such a favorite in certain circles. Maybe it will help them blow away their goal even more and get some of those movie lovers to read the book too.

74GardenOfForkingPaths
Mar 11, 2023, 4:40 am

How does one know whether the raised bands on the leather spines of fine press books are the result of using cords as a structural feature of the binding (as with this lovely Ampersand edition) vs just a decorative feature?

For example, I know the bands from publishers like Easton Press would be just decorative, but how about those on Thornwillow leather books or on Lyra's Dorian Gray?

75grifgon
Mar 11, 2023, 1:07 pm

>74 GardenOfForkingPaths: It's a great question.

The vast majority of raised bands on leather books today (everything from Barnes and Nobles collectible edition to private press masterpieces) are non-structural. You should assume as much unless it's indicated otherwise.

I wouldn't characterize them as "just decorative" though. Many elements of the book which once served a purpose or had a utility (e.g. margins or half-titles or even use of leather at all) have lost them and become decorative. From a bookbinder's perspective, executing a binding with non-structural bands is about as difficult as executing one with structural bands. The craft difference is definitely interesting and worth noting, but I wouldn't say that one is categorically finer than the other. In other words, if Lyra's or Thornwillow's books use non-structural bands, I don't think it should be a knock against them.

There's no hard and fast rule that I know of for telling whether raised band are structural or non-structural. Structural bands tend to extend over the face of the book a bit more, but non-structural can do this and just choose not to. It's mostly a "I know it when I see it" sort of thing.

76Glacierman
Mar 11, 2023, 3:33 pm

>74 GardenOfForkingPaths: Like >75 grifgon: says, there's no hard-and-fast rule, but usually, the cords which produce the bands are laced into the cover boards and the board is snug up against the shoulder created when the spine was rounded and backed. I've never seen cord-sewn binding with the now virtually ubiquitous groove along the spine, but that doesn't mean such haven't been done. Hand binders are very creative people and are always looking for new ways to put a book together. I myself have experimented with a known technique of sewing the text block on tapes, rounding/backing, and lacing the tapes into the cover board, leaving little or no visible evidence of the tapes.

As Griff says, you should assume bands on the spines are not structural unless specifically stated otherwise.

77GardenOfForkingPaths
Mar 12, 2023, 4:50 am

>75 grifgon: >74 GardenOfForkingPaths: Thank you both for the thorough explanation! Very enlightening.

78AmpersandBookStudio
Mar 12, 2023, 1:44 pm

Here is the first essay on the making of this edition, "Endpaper Design and Georgian Maps: The Making of "Master and Commander" – Chapter One." https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/p/endpaper-design-and-georgian-maps.

79H-M
Mar 12, 2023, 4:19 pm

>29 grifgon: "Laid refers to the ribbed texture caused naturally or created artificially during the manufacture; mould-made refers to the manufacturing process itself."

Sort of, if by "naturally caused" you mean naturally caused by the mould upon which a sheet was made: laid moulds have many closely-spaced parallel wires that run perpendicular to more widely spaced chain lines. It's the chain lines that are the most visibly prominent feature of laid sheets. They're apparent for the same reason watermarks are: the areas of a sheet lying over these wires are slightly thinner. There are machine-made papers with an artificial laid appearance, and they are awful.

Nideggen is an example of a mould-made laid sheet, and it has very obvious rough & smooth sides (rough = the side lying on the mesh when sheet is formed). In the best handmades, i.e. Barcham Green, the difference between the two sides is much less pronounced. But it's still there, which is why when printing on laid paper, you must plan your imposition so that openings alternate rough/smooth (never have a rough page facing a smooth page).

Wove sheets do not have these chain lines - the mould is made differently. The Western wove mould/sheet was invented by James Whatman, at the request of Baskerville for a smoother sheet to show off the fine serifs & thin strokes of his new type. The first book printed on wove paper (tho only partially) was Baskerville's Virgil (1757). So all books before then were printed on laid paper.

This page on Princeton's site has a couple of images that show the difference between the two types of moulds.

Dard Hunter's Papermaking is a good primer on the subject. Sylvie Turner's Book of Fine Paper (1998) offers a basic overview, & helpfully indexes papers by how they're made, but its info on mills is now just a reminder of how much choice there was 25 years ago. Alas.

80grifgon
Mar 12, 2023, 4:48 pm

>79 H-M: "Sort of, if by "naturally caused" you mean naturally caused by the mould upon which a sheet was made"

Yep, precisely. As opposed to the machine-made papers which create the appearance artificially.

81Levin40
Mar 16, 2023, 5:21 am

Only one copy of the Anchor edition left!

82astropi
Mar 27, 2023, 7:24 pm

All gone. For all extensive purposes, this kickstarter is entirely SOLD OUT!
Congrats to Ampersand Studio! We all have high hopes for this :)

83EdmundRodriguez
Mar 28, 2023, 12:53 pm

>82 astropi: still 38 copies available in sheets for bookbinding! I would have given that route a go if I had missed out on the anchor edition.

84AmpersandBookStudio
Mar 30, 2023, 12:46 am

Thanks to all for the tremendous support of this project! Here is our latest Substack blog entry on the design process, "Mapping Typography": https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/p/mapping-typography.

As of this writing, one "Commodore" level of support has opened up. If you are interested, please make sure to read the update posted in Kickstarter on March 9 regarding the special "Anchor" Edition that is included.

Got word today that the fine team at Velké Losiny has started making the custom, handmade paper for the HMS Victory Edition. For ongoing updates, I encourage you to subscribe to our free blog: https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/.

85AmpersandBookStudio
Jun 4, 2023, 2:19 am

Since my last update here, I have added four new essays related to this edition on my Substack blog: https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/. If you are interested in keep track of the project, I encourage you to subscribe.

86SebRinelli
Jun 4, 2023, 7:24 am

>85 AmpersandBookStudio: They are well written and researched – a delight to read. Thank you!

87Chemren
Jun 4, 2023, 9:39 am

I am also enjoying your essays. Thanks for writing them. Some fun and interesting touchstones back to fine printing history.

88astropi
Jun 16, 2023, 1:20 pm

Sounds like they're making great progress!
https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/p/a-next-generation-printer-and-book

By the way, how many backers received the lovely broadside recently? I need to get it framed :)

89c_schelle
Jun 16, 2023, 4:01 pm

I have received the broadside, but as wall space is severely limited I can't put it up on a wall.

90Dr.Fiddy
Jun 16, 2023, 4:10 pm

>88 astropi: “ By the way, how many backers received the lovely broadside recently? I need to get it framed :)”

Like all other broadsides, it ended up in a drawer… ;)

91What_What
Edited: Jun 16, 2023, 8:50 pm

I received mine as well, although to be honest there is nothing for me to do with it, other than momentarily admire it before rolling and putting it away. Probably like most people.

92gmacaree
Jun 17, 2023, 2:32 am

I ordered the broadside only with the intent to frame it next to my Aubrey-Maturin collection. So that's what I did.

93wongie
Jun 17, 2023, 4:46 am

I wasn't paying attention to the Kickstarter descriptions and ended with two broadsides so I get to both frame one and admire the other's unique number before rolling it away like What_What said.

94gmacaree
Jun 17, 2023, 5:26 am

Clearly I shouldn't have backed the kickstarter and just begged a spare broadside off one of you 😅

95astropi
Jun 19, 2023, 6:03 pm

96AmpersandBookStudio
Oct 22, 2023, 3:06 pm

Just a quick update... The Bookbinder's Edition has shipped, and we are in the process of sewing, rounding and backing our bound editions of Master and Commander. On our free Substack blog ( https://ampersandbookstudio.substack.com/ ), I have posted production updates and videos, as well as several detailed essays on a variety of related topics – everything from the history of printing illustrations to the craftspeople making bookbinding tools today.

Also coming up this week, we will be announcing our next book – a creative collaboration I can hardly wait to share. Keep an eye out here or subscriibe to my blog.

97Levin40
Oct 23, 2023, 10:48 am

>96 AmpersandBookStudio: Thank you! Your updates/blog posts are continually fascinating, certainly the best 'behind the scenes' I've experienced on a kickstarter project. Very much looking forward to the book, which is shaping up to be something very special (and...on schedule! almost unheard of for a fine press project ;-)), and the announcement of your next book.

btw: Dimitris Koutsipetsidis looks like someone who could give Rich Tong a run for his money! Wonderful bindings.

98gmacaree
Oct 24, 2023, 11:56 am

I need the Celestial Emporium. Very badly.

99wongie
Edited: Oct 24, 2023, 12:02 pm

March 2024 feels a long way off (For people who aren't subscribed to their newsletter that's just for the Kickstarter launch)

100wooter
Oct 24, 2023, 12:07 pm

yes it looks interesting. not sure i'm sold on the illustrator but i'm certainly interested to see.

101NathanOv
Oct 24, 2023, 12:20 pm

>98 gmacaree: Very interesting title selection, and I’m glad to hear of more coming from The Harebrained Press.

Sounds like this one is more of an artists book, but should still be plenty to read in the companion volume.

102EdmundRodriguez
Nov 27, 2:42 am

I didn't pick up a case when I originally ordered (I generally like to see my books rather than hide them in a box), but the addition of the wood on its spine convinced me, so I added it on with the final payment. Looking forward to this one (sounds like it should be January/February next year).

103Levin40
Nov 27, 6:16 am

>102 EdmundRodriguez: I'm quite disappointed by this. The solander does look very nice and I was about to order it to...until I noticed that it's now $250, $100 more than offered previously. That's too much just for an enclosure in my opinion. I was hoping that they would offer a simple slipcase at this stage, which I think was hinted at when the KS was live. Had they provided the full specs of the solander and stated that they would definitely not be doing a slipcase, then I would probably have picked up the solander back then.

104EdmundRodriguez
Nov 27, 6:22 am

>103 Levin40: I hadn't noticed the cost increase (agree it's a bit steep, but maybe reflects the expanded work going into them compared to original vision). I had been planning to make my own slipcase out of wood, but I'm now not convinced I'd get the time to do that in the next decade, so decided to add the box.

105astropi
Edited: Nov 27, 9:52 am

With the slipcase, the price for the Anchor edition rises to between $900 - 1000, which is mostly on-par with other "deluxe" or "numbered" editions I've seen --

Vote: Assuming you ordered the Anchor edition without the solander box, do you now plan to spend an extra 250 for it?

Current tally: Yes 2, No 4, Undecided 5

106What_What
Nov 27, 11:08 am

>103 Levin40: I suppose the question should really be whether the slipcase, as it is designed now, is worth $250, based on the addition of the wooden label and printed map, to supplement the leather and hand marbled paper that was originally planned.

With all of those features, as well as a pre-order discount for ordering what will be almost two years in advance when it is finally delivered, it doesn't seem so outlandish that the original price was $100 less than what they are offering them for now.

107Levin40
Nov 27, 11:21 am

>106 What_What: I agree, I just think they should be offering a cheaper option too. $250 just for an enclosure is a lot whichever way you look at it, even though it is undoubtably a nice one.

108What_What
Nov 27, 11:48 am

>107 Levin40: That's a very fair point. It's such a beautiful book to not have some kind of enclosure for it.

109kcshankd
Nov 27, 12:59 pm

I am in the undecided camp, mainly because I don't buy books to put them away in boxes. However, this may be a spectacular exception.

The inside of the case looks fine - has anyone seen an external image of a completed box?

110pcdude
Nov 27, 1:53 pm

I too do not like to have my books in boxes and have downgraded all my lettered rights to numbered for that reason. However, I did reach out to Tristan at Ampersand to see if they could make a slipcase based on the clamshell. He is going to do so for me as a special project. Therefore, I assume that you can probably reach out to him and have the same done if you want.

The design and cost for the slipcase is TBD and it will be done after all other books are shipped.

111jsg1976
Nov 27, 3:11 pm

>110 pcdude: I’ve also reached out to Tristan about getting a slipcase instead. I was thinking of basically flipping the clamshell inside out - use the map as the outside of the slipcase (I’m hoping it’ll be durable enough if it’s the liner of the clamshell), and having the wooden label laid over the map on the spine. I’m not a creative type though, so if anyone else has any good ideas I’d love to hear them (and maybe there are economies of scale for piggybacking on someone else’s good design).

112kcshankd
Nov 27, 3:25 pm

>110 pcdude:

Thank you for that, I may