Spine Damage to Books?

I was wondering if anyone here can help me diagnose what is happening in my library. A small number of books (which appear to be randomly dispersed but I do not know for sure if they have been moved by a cleaner) have developed very noticeable whit spots / stains on their spines. I have removed the few books that already seem seriously affected but I am at a loss in trying to figure out what is causing this. One of the affected volumes was "On the Eve, by Turgenev", another was "The Bible designed to be read as literature". This part of my library is in Spain and is in a house that is not always inhabited so heat, damp or insect damage are all conceivable explanations. The pattern of damage looks similar to what one might expect of a book was splashed with bleach.

Any clues?!

(I could also post a picture if someone was able to remind me of the process for doing this?)

It sounds like mildew, and the only solution I know would be to climate control the house with both AC and a dehumidifier. The same thing happens when books are stored in an attic in a high humidity location.

Thank you. The damaged parts seem to be crisper / brighter white than any photos I could find of mildew on the Internet but this is certainly plausible. And I would certainly be prepared to get / run a dehumidifier rather than risk more wide ranging damage!

>3 leboucher: Spray them with some alcohol based hand sanitizer. It kills the mildew and won’t damage the paper too much as it dries fast.

>1 leboucher: https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees#How_to_add...

>1 leboucher:

My money is on this being a humidity-related problem. Purchase 1 or 2 powerful dehumidifiers and position them in proximity to where your books are shelved or stored.

>1 leboucher: You mentioned a cleaner, so perhaps it could be due to someone spraying some type of cleaner too close to the books.

>7 Betelgeuse: Yep - I'd make sure to rule this out first. Bleach can definitely have an instant effect on things. But more likely is the mildew, especially given heat variations and regular moisture.

I have now been looking more carefully at some of my books and see that some leather labels also seem to be being eaten away around the edges very noticeably. This is very worrying to find in a room where books are being stored (neatly on shelves). This doesn't seem to me to be possibly due to mildew or mould and I can only imagine that this is some sort of animal problem. Horrible though it is to think about it I guess this might be either damage from cockroaches or from mice? (We sometimes have the former found in the house - usual given the climate although the house is regularly treated - but I have never seen the latter.) Does anyone have any experience of this or any clues? Might the possible 'mildew' problems also be linked to this? I am trying to decide whether there is any way to salvage this room as storage!

This is my attempt to load some slightly horrifying images... I am honestly a bit shocked! :-(

>9 leboucher: That is some unfortunate damage, alright. Hopefully someone here can give you an answer. If it were cockroach damage you'd probably also see small brown spots on the paper edges. Could also be silverfish, one of the nemeses of book collectors and a common pest where there's damp.

Your last photo certainly looks like the growth pattern of mold. Either that or the book was sprayed at some point with a liquid compound that spread and damaged in circular spots.

I feel like I need a stiff, middle of the day, whisky…..

We have asked a pest expert to come and give a formal opinion but there do seem to be (uuurggghh) small brown droppings from something on horizontal surfaces near the worst affected areas. Apart from anything else this also suggests that our cleaner has not been cleaning!

I am new to Southern European temperatures, humidity and wildlife having mostly lived (and stored books) in Northern Europe. The pests are quite a price to pay - my husband has always previously accused me of overreacting!

P.S. with the mildew damage, some of the worst affected - and more easily replaceable - books I will likely dispose of altogether. But for other books with some visible or suspected impact do others agree that some kind of alcohol based sanitizer would be the best approach ( along with serious dehumidifying). Should those books also be removed from storage alongside other books temporarily (I hope there is a solution that is not permanent) to minimise further risk of spread? Sources from Google seem to cover quite a wide range of suggestions… :-(

>14 leboucher: If the droppings are pinhead size, then it does sound like cockroaches are involved to some degree. Certain species eat wood pulp in the wild and could indeed be causing some of the damage you see.

Between that and what looks like mold pattern damage, a dehumidifier is probably going to be essential for your book room. I don't know what other folks think, but I use a lot of open-framework bookshelves (no back apart from a simple retaining slat), and that seems to be beneficial for me. At least it creates fewer dark crevices for silverfish and mold to hide.

Hope you're able to treat and salvage most of the books under that situation.

Below a couple learnings from seven years of living in a country that is underwater 60% of the year, and moving to a similar one:

- All my books that were in open shelves close to a window and that were not regularly dusted got badly foxed.

- Books sitting at the edge of shelves, esp. on the bottom level and partly obscured by a decorative bookshelf slat got silverfish bites. Especially true if they were bound in uncoated paper. My FS edition of Vanity Fair, for example, has considerable silverfish bites on the slipcase.

So, in my new home my main bookshelf is sitting as far as possible from the window and the curtains are always down. I've bought a dehumidifier and run it for 1/2 hr two times a day to keep humidity down in the room (around 45%)

>10 leboucher: >11 leboucher:
For a side by side comparison, I have taken the liberty of cropping your original images and adding photos of undamaged specimens obtained from this forum and the internet.

On the Eve is cloth bound. The clamshell box for Original Leaves is also cloth covered with 'a gilt-lettered red morocco spine label' (per an Abebooks listing). Also in >9 leboucher: you mention more leather labels eaten from the edges and this description is consistent with what we see with the red morocco label.

The damage appears to be corrosive in the first case and bleach spots in the second. I wonder if the same chemical could cause both the effects seen in the photos below. Is the scuffed portion below the red label rough to the touch? I ask because these scuff marks are seen on either side of the label. Are there similar scuff marks on the underlying portion of other leather labels eaten along the edges?

The Book Care and Repair forum might be a another place to search for solutions: https://www.librarything.com/ngroups/602/Book-Care-and-Repair



On a lighter note, I am reminded of Mr. Bean's predicament with the painting whenever I see corrosive damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTli1HU9axY&t=5m26s

>1 leboucher: Did you discover the root(s) of the problem?

A dehumidifier is essential where I live and it does a great job. I dial it to 50% humidity on auto and set/forget.

One positive from having a dehumidifier in your library is it deters many critters like cockroaches who prefer damp areas.

But I also use cockroach traps which last for 3 months.

I do however sometimes buy second hand books in less than pristine condition and introduce them to my shelves. Luckily I don't seem to have imported any issues yet but it's something I'm aware of.

This seems like the most relevant thread for this question but apologies if not.

I’ve received a set of quite expensive books (not folio) where my expectation was that they were as new despite being printed more than 10 years ago. All three of the cloth covers have white spots on them front and back which I’m quite sure is mildew or mold.

Pictures for reference:
https://imgur.com/a/ReS5d3j

What should my expectation be with the book seller in this case? (a shop and publisher but not the publisher of the book).

Given that it was an expensive international delivery that took weeks to arrive, should I expect them to cover the return to of the books and either refund me fully or replace?

>21 anthonyfawkes: If it was listed as new, and the damage was not mentioned either in text or images, I would expect a full refund without incurred return costs.

>21 anthonyfawkes: That's really disappointing. They should as you say cover the return of the books and either give a refund or replace it.

Is this The Divine Comedy set? I ask as you mentioned ordering them on the Fine Press forum and I have also ordered this set, but it is still being shipped.

>23 assemblyman: Yes it is unfortunately, I didnt want to update that thread until I had spoken to them about it and hopefully resolved.

>24 anthonyfawkes: I hope it is resolved to your satisfaction. I don't see how there can be any issue on their end based on the photos you have shown.

It will be interesting to see what condition my set will be in when they arrive. I'm not optimistic as I would assume these sets are all stored in the same place.

>25 assemblyman: I bought that in the recent sale as well. Mine have arrived and do not exhibit the same problem, so there is hope!

>26 Chemren: That gives me hope that a replacement is possible then at least.

>10 leboucher: That looks like palmetto bugs. In the southern US, down in the swamps we have them. They look like giant cock roaches. I did not read all the post....don't know if someone else mentioned that. Just get some basic roach motels and hide them all over the room. Sounds creepy but at night you might hear them eating the paper.

>26 Chemren: Thanks for letting me know. That's encouraging.

>27 anthonyfawkes: Let us know how it turns out.

>24 anthonyfawkes: I had a similar issue with the set but the spots were perhaps fainter. I wiped them down with a damp cloth and the marks disappeared. Hope you manage to resolve.

>21 anthonyfawkes: Coincidentally. I've just received a used book today which I bought marked as Very Good. I'll hold off on the details until resolved by vendor, but will be interested in the group's assessment of stated condition versus actual condition.

So, I received a book today as described in >31 LesMiserables: marked VG.

I won't disclose vendor as per our negotiation and refund, but would be interested in hearing of the group's thoughts on VG description versus images.

https://imgur.com/a/ymFzaXb

>32 LesMiserables:
Technically I would class that as "Good", not "Very Good".

From the Fine Press wiki:-

Bookseller terminology
New or Mint means absolutely new, never sold or used, and not damaged in any way.
Very fine is a flawless copy, perfect in every way and probably never read. These are few and far between. Sometimes abbreviated “VF.”
Fine is a copy with no real defects, but is not as pristine as a very fine copy. It may have been read, but with care. Any flaw, such as a bumped corner, a slightly sunned spine, rubbing, slight soiling, or a very tiny tear, will be noted. (Example: “slightly rubbed, else fine.”). Sometimes abbreviated “F.”
Very Good is a copy with one or more small defects. It may be rubbed, have a small tear, a dinged corner, or other minor defect. Defects should be noted in the description. Abbreviated “VG.”
Good denotes a copy with some obvious, larger flaws. There may be a large tear in the dustjacket, a large gift inscription, be very sunned, have a creased spine, or have other defects. Many ex-library books fall into this category. Makes a good reading copy. All defects should be noted.
Poor/Fair indicates a copy with very serious defects. It may actually have some loose pages, underlining or highlighting, or be very soiled. These books are generally below the standards of most book sellers.
Seconds are books that have been discounted because they failed to sell or are damaged in some minor way (the damage should be detailed). These books may carry a seconds mark on them (eg. a line drawn across the lower edge of the page block).

So it’s been resolved, I received a full refund with no more questions asked so kudos to them for that. I asked for a return label but it seems they didn’t want them back so now I have the question of if they can be saved?

I saw the suggestion of a damp cloth, would rubbing alcohol kill dormant mold without damaging the material ?

>34 anthonyfawkes: I would thin it, but opt for white vinegar instead, again thinned. I would opt on the side of rigour rather than delicacy in this case, given you are unlikely to sell them.on, but more importantly you want to ensure the spores are eradicated and get nowhere close to cross-contaminating your other books.

>33 wcarter: Yes, it was less a structural defect and more the result of environmental issues that it suffered from, which the standards you mention are less inclined to highlight.

>35 LesMiserables:
Thanks, I’ve given the books and the slipcase the first treatment with some white cleaning vinegar and a microfiber cloth. I’ll keep them separate still and check on them in a week or so to see if anything changes.

>32 LesMiserables: Ensure you verify the book condition definitions provided by the seller against the standards provided by the market platform you buy from viz. Ebay, Etsy, Amazon, AbeBooks, ThriftBooks etc..

The following definition is from ThriftBooks:

Very Good: A copy that has been read, but remains in excellent condition. Pages are intact and are not marred by notes or 
highlighting, but may contain a neat previous owner name. The spine remains undamaged.

This is from AbeBooks:

Very Good (VG): Describes a book that shows some small signs of wear - but no tears - on either binding or paper. Any defects should be noted by the seller.

So in case of any deviation, buyer can leverage return/ [even partial] refund negotiations in their favour. Sellers are bound by the Terms and Conditions of the platform they use, unless otherwise specified.

Hence, experienced sellers often provide detailed specifications including of any anomalies. In a conflict, I believe such a description takes precedence over any argument on generic terminology.

I've found "Very Good" to mean "Not Very Good" more often than not, so I often avoid it unless it's a really great deal on a book that I wouldn't otherwise be able to source.

That said, mold damage is something that should be disclosed regardless of condition, since that's only going to get worse in most situations, and can have negative impact beyond the book itself.

>39 HonorWulf: I haven't been as scrupulous as maybe I should have been in interrogating listings, probably given that the books I'm buying currently are small change. But, it's probably an inexpensive lesson for me this time and will learn from it.

Some vendors truly are remarkably blaise about the whole process.

In this case https://imgur.com/a/ymFzaXb
In the back and forth with the vendor, I mentioned the book was filthy, and questioned was the book inspected before sending.

They replied...

"looks like a bit of dust and spider-web for me."

Saints preserve us!

>40 LesMiserables: Heh, I think there's a Monty Python joke in there somewhere....!

>41 HonorWulf: Ha. Truth be told, when I opened the package to inspect, it did feel akin to being slapped across the face with a large fish.

>42 LesMiserables: "DYING HERE"