THE WAR ROOM CHALLENGE - APRIL 2024 : WARS OF RELIGION

The fall of Constantinople to the Ottomans.

Plenty of scope here throughout history:

The Crusades
The Turks' march through Europe
The Thirty Years War and various conflicts between Protestant and Catholic (Northern Ireland for example)
The wars between Islam and Christianity (up to today)
The wars between Islam and Judaism
The wars between Islam and Hinduism
The wars between Sunni & Shia.

I will be reading:

The History of the Crusades by Steven Runciman (in three volumes)
and
The Thirty Years War by C.V. Wedgwood

I am currently reading The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy by Peter H. Wilson and doubt I will get anything else read for this topic in April. I did check a book out of the library, but with the length of the Wilson book, it is highly unlikely that I will get it read.

I decided to go with The Perfect Heresy: The Revolutionary Life and Death of the Medieval Cathars.

I am planning to read The Holy War by John Bunyan and I have some others too, maybe Emma's War .

Recently read first two volumes of The History of the Crusades as a sidebar to my interest in the Bright Young Things, with whom Runciman is associated. This challenge has spurred me on to read vol 3, of which I have now finished Book 1, in which Richard Coeur de Lion is featured.

Can recommend Khartoum. While the British involvement was not religiously motivated, except insofar as we accept Lytton Strachey’s portrait of the British commander, Lord Gordon, in Eminent Victorians, they were attempting to deal with the military insurgency of the self-proclaimed Mahdi, a Messianic Islamic figure. Asher’s highly readable account is grounded in personal familiarity with the Sudan and knowledge of the cultural background of the Mahdist movement.

I had noted Knight Crusader by Ronald Welch for this challenge and I have come across Crusade by Elizabeth Laird on my shelves. Both are children's fiction.

I have a copy of Tyll by Daniel Kehlmann which is set during the Thirty Years War and would like to read a nonfiction on the Hussite War, probably Warrior of God.

>2 PaulCranswick: Various wars of Christians vs Pagans, e.g. the "Northern Crusade"

>8 booksaplenty1949: It was certainly a religious conflict as far as the Mahdi's followers were concerned.

>9 avatiakh: Tyll is a great pick, Kerry.

I started The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy by Peter H. Wilson on April 1. At 997 pages, it may take me a while, but I'm already more than 100 pages into it. So far, it's been fascinating.

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I also started Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence by Karen Armstrong at the very end of March, but that's turning out to be something of an apologia for religion. On the one hand, the author is trying to counter the somewhat inane idea that all wars, everywhere, are caused by religion - or perhaps that religious people, particularly monotheists, are uniquely bellicose. I can't argue with that.

But on the other hand, she's got an excuse ("not really due to religion", "didn't really happen; written into the holy book to make a point", etc.) for every bit of violence she mentions that was condoned or encouraged by some religion. And she determinedly points out every scrap of pro-peace and anti-violence idealism expressed by religious spokespeople and adherents, however ineffective it was. At a bit more than 1/4 of the way through the book, I'm guessing that she'll be trying to demonstrate that religion led the way in every reduction of violence in human history, and won't do it in a manner I find convincing.

I don't think this properly qualifies for this challenge,

I'm also currently reading another children's book, Tamburlaine's Elephants by Geraldine McCaughrean. It's about the Mongol Tamerlane's invasion of India. He called himself the 'Sword of Islam'.

>12 ArlieS: I agree about the Wilson book, Arlie. I am almost 250 pages into it and I am continuing to find it fascinating.

>6 Kristelh: Isn’t Bunyan’s just using warfare as a metaphor for the struggle between God and the Devil for “Mansoul”?

>11 PaulCranswick: As in any “religious” war, factions with different agendas found it politic to ally themselves with a religious figure who offered leadership in a conflict which could advance their purpose. This same phenomenon is very evident in the Crusades. But certainly many accepted Muhammad Ahmed’s claim to be the Mahdi, with all that implied.

I read a Thirty Years War book last month (when I thought I didn't have an appropriate book for the topic), however, I'm game to follow directions this month!;) I have The Burning Chambers by Kate Mosse on my shelf and I've wanted to get to it for sometime. It is a work of historical fiction set in France in the 16th century: Catholics vs. Huguenots.

I can recommend both of Heinrich Mann's books: Young Henry of Navarre and Henry, King of France which is Catholic vs. Protestants in 16th century France. They are both chunksters, though.

I'm a little ahead of the challenge as I read slow and was afraid of falling behind.

My choices for t6his month are a little different and may not count but I think they do.

The 1838 Mormon War In Missouri by Stephen C. LeSueur

In the late 1830's Joseph Smith led his people to Missouri to settle, the mostly southern, slave-holding Misoouri settlers were upset that these people from the Northeast who were pretty much abolitionist were taking up the land and settling in droves. Theuy were forced out of one county and the legislature set up a county just for the Mormons to settle but hostilities still followed and the Governor of Missouri issued a proclamation that the Mormons leave the state or be exterminated. A small civil war insued.

Interesting read about how the Mormons ended up being expelled from the state of Missouri. Tries to be even handed laying the blame between the Missouri settlers and the Mormons. Not sure I agree with all the author's claims as I belong to the Restoration movement. But the history is interesting and I've been to many of the sites mentioned.

The Irish Hunger Strike by Tom Collins

I don't usually read many political books, but found this on my shelf and decided to give it a try.
Heavy book both in size (626 pages) and in story. I didn't know anything rally about the Irish struggle and found this very educational. It was also bleak, sad, and encouraging. Interesting read.

>19 hredwards: Religious differences mostly a pretext for a struggle about class and economic power.

April 7, 1865
11o'clock A.M.

General Sheridan says " If the thing is pressed, I think that Lee will surrender."

Let the thing be pressed.

A Lincoln

(Carl Sandburg, Abraham Lincoln, The War years)

>15 booksaplenty1949:, Yes, Books, I am sure you're right but it intrigued me and so I was curious and put on my reading plans.

>22 Kristelh: Allegory always a huge turn-off for me, but if we all wanted to read the same thing the wait time at the library would be insane.

My pick for this month is The Passion of Anne Hutchinson. Those Puritans had a lot to answer for.

>24 Familyhistorian: Not a war, however.

Am enjoying The Kingdom of Acre. Good to finally know more about Richard the Lionheart than I was able to learn from The Adventures of Robin Hood and something about the Children’s Crusade besides the fact that there was one. Two, actually. Runciman has a wonderful ability to synthesise complex story-lines from diverse sources into a concise (well, 1200 pages—-but it covers 200 years) and readable narrative.
Importance of dynastic marriage a constant theme. Nineteen year-old Queen Maria of Jerusalem marries a sixty year-old knight, who rules as regent when she dies in childbirth two years later until her thirteen year-old daughter marries the Holy Roman Emperor. Etc.

I listened to: Tachtigjarige Oorlog: Een hoorcollege over de geschiedenis van de Nederlandse Opstand by Judith Pollman.
It’s about the war that made the Netherlands into what it is now, and independent of Spain. Also called the Dutch Revolt.
Of course we learned about it at school, but I have forgotten a lot. A lot of unconnected facts have stuck in my mind, but how did they link up? This book gives this background.

It was a war of religion. Started out as people wanting to be free to have their own religion, evolved into Protestant versus Catholic and ended up in Catholicism being the banned religion.
The whole story is still fascinating. People destroying the interiors of churches! In what looked like a spontaneous revolt. What happened there?
There was more to it than religion alone, but religion seems like the moving force to me, at least in the beginning.
I liked this book a lot, very clear and well told. Only problem that it was too short. I still want some more.

I finished The French Wars of Religion by R.J. Knecht, a handy little summary of the events and ideas that drove the conflicts of that era.

Finished last vol of The History of the Crusades. I thought Runciman's 9 page Epilogue a brilliant summing-up. Will be interested in Mr Cranswick’s thoughts.

Started The Prince and the Page: A Story of the Last Crusade. I have read about a dozen novels by Charlotte Mary Yonge, but all contemporary (to her) until I tackled Grisly Grisell apropos of the Wars of the Roses. The Prince and the Page obviously a children’s book, but off to a very lively start. I note there is a copy in William Butler Yeats’ LT legacy library.

I completed The Burning Chambers by Kate Mosse This is the story of Catholic vs. Huguenot in 16th century France, specifically Carcassonne and Toulouse. Throw in a missing/stolen shroud, romance, and the Inquisition and it should make for a great read. However, with a plethora of characters it was often difficult to keep up with who's who. There was a very much used and needed list of characters in the front of the book. Difficult to flip back all the time when using an ereader. There were few (in this book) specific battles, in the traditional sense, but it did delve, albeit briefly, into the Riots of Toulouse in 1562 where 3000-5000 were killed. Plenty of massacres including Wassy and St. Bart's. This was just a difficult read, not content wise--not sure why. This was book 1/3. I may seek out book 2 in the distant future. 592 pages Paul's War Room April-Wars of Religion 3.5 stars overall, 4 stars content

January and March Challenges coming together in The Prince and the Page as the English Crusaders, led by Edward I, have arrived in ruined Carthage, and discovered that St Louis, King of France, has died there of the plague while on an ill-advised side-mission to convert the King of Tunis.

I've just finished Knight Crusader by Ronald Welch, have to say I really enjoyed this children's novel. It starts a few weeks before the Battle of Hattin and covers also Richard the Lionheart's Battle of Arsuf. This won the Carnegie Medal (UK) in 1954.
I have a couple more books on the go for this month but not sure I'll get them finished as I have other reading going on.
Warrior of God: Jan Zizka and the Hussite Revolution by Victor Verney
Tyll by Daniel Kehlmann - Thirty Year War fiction

I am still plugging along with The Thirty Years Wars: Europe's Tragedy and remain hopeful that I will be able to finish it before the end of the month. It is interesting reading it and Vermeer's Hat at the same time.

>35 alcottacre: I'm also reading that one, but currently expecting it to drag into May. I've finished 511 of 997 pages as of this evening.

Finished The Prince and the Page: A Story of the Last Crusade. Ninth Crusade actually just a backdrop to a story concerning the relationship of the several sons of Simon de Montfort with Edward III, who was proclaimed King while en route to Acre. Ms Yonge depicts the unadorned stone under which Edward III is buried in Westminster Abbey as a block from the Temple in Jerusalem, a symbol of Edward’s unrealised hope to return on a further Crusade. Although I had just finished a book on the last Crusade, this novel required better knowledge of 13thC English history than I brought to it. Frequently needed to consult Wikipedia. But enjoyed the quality of Yonge’s writing.

>36 ArlieS: According to Hoopla Digital, I am 90% done with the book so I think I will have it finished by the end of the month. It certainly has been interesting reading for someone (me) who knew nothing of the Thirty Years War.

>6 Kristelh: I picked up Emma's War when it first came out based on a review in the Washington Post, but still haven't found 'the mood' or whatever to crack it open. If you do read it, please give me a little encouragement to open it. I'm nervous that it will be brutal in ways I'd wish I could forget later.

And I'm afraid I'm running out of time to pick a book specific to this challenge and still finish in April, so for the purposes of staying active in the War Room discussion, I'll add a book that I finished this month, Conquerors: How Portugal Forged the First Global Empire, by Roger Crowley. Although the book, as described in its title, focuses on the exploration and domination of new territories in creating the Portuguese Empire, throughout the story is the thread of Holy War and Crusade by these Christian explorers against the Muslim world in the Indian Ocean (~1500). The Portuguese kings not only wanted to disrupt the Venetian hold on trade coming from the East but also drive back and totally eliminate Islam. Crusading military actions advocated by the Portuguese kings and blessed by the Pope followed throughout the region, brutally, as the Portuguese also sought to reunite with the legendary kingdom of Prester John. It's rather an impressive, bumbling, and appalling tale that in a strange way bridges the late medieval to the Renaissance period of history (elsewhere I've seen this sliver of years referred to as the Age of Discovery). Just note that the religious war is not the subject of this book but definitely a major theme.

I read Emma's War by Deborah Scroggins. It covers civil war in Sudan, it mentions the war in Somalia. It covers the conflicts between the north and south of Sudan and encompasses foreign invasions and resistance, ethnic tensions, religious disputes, and disputes over resources.

I finally finished The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy today (I started it March 30th) and one of the biggest things I took away from it was the impact of that war even into the 20th century.

>41 alcottacre: Congrats! I've still only finished 670/997 pages - just about 2/3. But it's worth the effort.

>42 ArlieS: Thanks, Arlie. I agree it is worth the effort! I thought his 'wrapping up' at the end of the book was very well done. Wilson certainly knows his subject matter.

I finished Catch-67 this morning. It is the perfect choice given the current events. Enjoyed the book and the author's style of writing.

>30 booksaplenty1949: I agree that Runciman's summing up is masterful. All together the three volumes are a complete joy to read.

May's thread is up as we switch our attentions to the Napoleonic Wars

https://www.librarything.com/topic/360466

Better late than never:

The Thirty Years War : Europe's tragedy by Peter H. Wilson (Peter Hamish Wilson)

This book is pretty much exactly what it says in the title - a history of the thirty years war. I knew very little about it when I started the book, and most of that came from novels set in the period; that gave me familiarity with names of some of the key players and not much more; I also didn't know what parts of the novels were invented rather than historical.

This book was very through, but my memory wasn't up to retaining it all; so my knowledge has expanded, but not by as much as it could have done, from reading this one book. To retain more, I'd need to read other books about the same period, preferably before this one fades too much. And this is where my one complaint with the book comes in - plenty of footnotes, but no bibliography. I'd like to have had an easily-mined list of suggestions for farther reading, ideally complete with author's comments.

Finally finished The Betrothed, and while the battles of the Thirty Years War are barely discussed, the pillaging of the Italian countryside and the outbreak of plague spread by the invaders provide a context for the lovers’ struggle to finally wed. So I can add this novel to the two works on The Crusades which I read back in April for that month’s War Room Challenge. Manzoni’s novel sort of fit Mark Twain's definition of a classic—-“a work which everyone wants to have read, but no one wants to read.” It is long and highly discursive—- chapters devoted to history and the analysis of secondary characters regularly interrupt the plot. But even in translation the language is memorable and its importance in Italian literature is universally acknowledged. So I feel better and stronger for having read it.

>48 booksaplenty1949:, It's on my someday list!

>49 Kristelh: I notice you reviewed The Green Hat a while back. I think this is a perfect example of a book which had enormous appeal for its contemporaries but fails to maintain much interest for later generations, other than as a historical artifact. Apropos of the discussion on The Great (National) Novel elsewhere, I’m always interested in what gives a work “classic” quality.

>50 booksaplenty1949: I did not know what would qualify as the great American novel but if it is to represent the majority of what it means to be a citizen of the US, then I had to agree that The Grapes of Wrath might be the best novel to be the GAN because it represents the American experience for a lot of people who come here; immigrants, low middle class, families. It isn't my favorite American novel but I think it does qualify as a good example.

To me a classic is a book that doesn't disappear after many, many years. I think books that come and go as they do now days, are not what I would consider "classic" material.

I didn't read The Green Hat recently but I remember really liking it when I read it. I wrote a very long review of the book which is something that I can do when I like a book. I was surprised when others didn't like it. But we're all different, so that's good.

>51 Kristelh: I would certainly put The Grapes of Wrath on the short list of contenders for the GAN.
I am always interested in the issue of short-and long-term critical regard. Those responsible for bestowing literary prizes are presumably sophisticated readers and yet any list of prizes which have been awarded for, say, thirty or more years will reveal many titles which have not survived the test of time.

>51 Kristelh: & >52 booksaplenty1949: When Steinbeck was good I think he was very good.

My favourite book of his has to be Of Mice and Men which I have read umpteen times.
I think that The Grapes of Wrath is his greatest book, if not always the most enjoyable. I also have a very high regard for In Dubious Battle and East of Eden. He would certainly make my list of the top half dozen American authors of the 20th Century along with:

Toni Morrison
James Baldwin
William Faulkner
Willa Cather
Edith Wharton

>53 PaulCranswick: I read all of Willa Cather in high school—-in the matching green vols of her collected works put out by Knopf—-but have felt no urge to revisit her, I have to say. Lucy Gayheart (unfortunate title) is the only book of hers I bought, back in the day.

>53 PaulCranswick:, I think my favorite Steinbeck is The Winter of our Discontent and Cannery Row. I also really like East of Eden. I can also agree with your choices of authors. I haven’t read much of Willa Cather so I would probably replace that one with Saul Bellow or Philip Roth.

Very belatedly, I have finally finished my read for this topic, Crusaders : the epic history of the wars for the holy lands by Dan Jones. The book provides a very in depth telling of the Crusades by following the stories of the various crusaders. There was so much information in the book that it was not a quick read, but I learned a lot that I did not know about the Crusades. Jones clearly did a lot of research for this book, and includes quotes from many primary sources writing about the battles. It's a very good book, with helpful maps and a long list of the various crusaders, in case you have trouble keeping them all straight.

The St Bartholomew’s Day Massacre doesn’t meet the definition of a “war,” but I started reading The Chaplet of Pearls a while back as an adjunct to Wars of Religion and then put it aside. I currently have three other books on the go but for whatever reason they don’t call to me at the moment and Charlotte Mary Yonge is filling the gap with her engaging prose and thought-provoking look at human nature.