Fablelistik Editions - Possible New Fine Press

There’s been a lot of chatter on the Suntup/Centipede Press fan pages on FB today about what looks potentially like a new fine press launching 10/1 called Fablelistik Editions, seemingly with a version of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. There is an Instagram account of someone who says they are the director of Fablelistik Editions with what appears to be pictures of a book being bound by hand, a partial page of text which appears to be from that story, and part of an illustration, among other things. There aren’t any details of anything yet - they’re just posting pictures every couple days with a countdown to the October 1 launch date. There are rumors that Paul Suntup is involved since it seems he said he was working on that title, though the trademark for the name of the press is supposedly held by Macmillan. There are also some teaser images in the FB fans group that show a partially finished book that looks to be 13” tall and text that looks as though it may be letterpress.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DARtHgSSSyF/?igsh=c2s3dTdoZDZ3OHM0

Sounds potentially interesting. Thanks for sharing.

>1 jsg1976: Intriguing, thanks. I'll go ahead and follow them on there now and see what manifests.

Roger Grech Bindery made a story/advertising?? of this new Press.

On the 1 October the press will announce their books.

I need a second Job if more presses open up ....

Latest instagram post indicates that they've got Gregory Manchess illustrating their first book. He's a busy guy these days!

The book can be seen here: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAd7Fd0p0_d/
It looks like a three piece Bradel binding with a red leather spin and seems to be paper on the boards depicting trees. I get a horror novel feel from it.

>7 David_Mauduit: It’s Sleepy Hollow. They posted a snippet of that book’s text at some point.

>7 David_Mauduit: I like it, seems quite suitable for Sleepy Hollow.

Here is some more info: https://www.rarebookhub.com/articles/3723

Crazy...
325 numbered...
2500 collector editions

Let's see what they have to offer...

>11 Ragnaroekk: Crazy...
325 numbered...
2500 collector editions

Maybe 2,500 collector editions is not so crazy if they are priced similarly to a Folio Society SE. I seem to recall reading that a FS SE limitation is around 2 or 3,000. If so I welcome it. Folio SE's need more competition.

I note the collector edition will have an acrylic slipcase. No Reply's science fiction series used a lucite slipcase which I think worked rather well although they are slim volumes. It will be interesting to see if Fablelistik Editions make acrylic slipcases as standard for their collector editions.

Anyway, the cover looks attractive and I am very happy to see another new press.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: "Folio SE's need more competition".

Good point. Folio seem quite relaxed at the moment, playing with price increases etc.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: if they are priced similarly to a FS SE they are going to present a much better value! Well, we will know this in a few hours

Color me interested. Will depend on the pricing. Signed up for announcements.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: FS has a lot more marketing infrastructure to move that number of copies.

But also it looks like this is an imprint of some larger publisher? Or has some such relationship? I didn't quite read carefully enough.

>13 Pendrainllwyn: Acrylic slipcases are still fairly uncommon, and I agree that they do work nicely with the right book design. A couple other instances I've seen are St James Park Press's Animal Farm and Salvage Press's Nine Silences.

>17 abysswalker: Fablelistik Editions is registered under the Macmillan Publishing Group

>17 abysswalker: According to Wikipedia, Macmillan Publishers (around since 1843) are one of the big five English language publishers along with Penguin Random House, Hachette, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster. So bigger than Folio Society.

>20 Pendrainllwyn: Macmillan is much, much bigger than FS. I find it interesting that a major publisher is returning to the fine press movement. There was a time when that wasn't a rarity. Random House did this back in the nineteen twenties and thirties. distributing or co-publishing press books. One such partnership was with England's Nonesuch Press and a notable RH issue was Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass printed for them by the Grabhorns (1930).

That Macmillan is returning to this tradition is encouraging.

>21 Glacierman: Indeed, they are one of the Big Five publishers. That list in full:

- Penguin/Random House
- Hachette Book Group
- Harper Collins
- Simon and Schuster
- Macmillan

>22 Shadekeep: There's been so much consolidation over the years I can't keep up with who's who any more! Random House bought Knopf years ago and Crown was another major label (an imprint of the remainder house, Outlet Book Company) but it, too, was acquired by Random (in 1988). Since then, there's been so much consolidation. Heck, even Scribner's got sucked up.

The American firm of Macmillan, Inc., no longer exists. The British Macmillan Publishers is the one we're talking about with Fabelistik.

I am most curious to see what the shipping charge will be since their releases will be staggered over the course of the year as opposed to FS's collection approach.

>23 Glacierman: Aye, US Macmillan is under the German firm Holtzbrinck Publishing Group. I would assume the UK firm Macmillan Publishers Ltd is the one referred to as being part of the Big Five. Unless that list already needs revision again.

Pre-orders and pricing are up. Lettered at $3950, Numbered at $895, Collector's at $265

Collectors' editions are not signed and not letterpress printed + currently shipping is only available to the US

Will be interesting to see who is binding all those editions... it can't be only Roger Grech... there are already 3 other planned releases ...

Overall the prices seem a little very expensive compared to the usual candidates.

Only USA shipping. I hope that is a bug in the system 😄

>28 Ragnaroekk: Unfortunately not as it is in their FAQ that they only ship within the US. Hopefully they will ship internationally at some point!

Regarding shipping, they say: "Keep checking back as we plan to be selling and shipping internationally soon!"

So, if you’re outside the US, you will lose out on rights from the starting block...

It looks promising but the prices do indeed seem high.

The photography and the communications from this press come across like amateur hour, I can't believe a major trade publishing house is behind this. A book announced every few months with enormous edition sizes and no track record? I am expecting this to crash and burn, I wouldn't risk your money.

Well, Pat Randle at Nomad is doing the letterpress. That's a plus.

>26 mholt: And for that reason, I’m out.

>32 edkennedy: I agree. Even after launch, the website is still not fully filled out, there are some bugs present, and the lack of high-quality photos depicting the books themselves doesn't resonate as a professional team being behind

At $895 I would expect the numbered edition to be quarter bound in something better than genuine leather.

The lettered edition looks great but at 10x14 it's very large. If stone leaf veneer boards are what I think they are then it may well be a heavy book too.

>28 Ragnaroekk: Overall the prices seem a little very expensive compared to the usual candidates.

Agreed. The high prices will save me money as I am going to pass.

Easy pass for me even though this is easily in my top ten titles. Macmillan needs to get out of the fine press space. I don't need another billion dollar corp trying to gouge me as a collector.

Feels a bit like some wires got crossed in a big bureaucracy. Hope they can sort it out because there's no reason a big publishing house shouldn't be able to leverage their distribution network and resources to make fine press more available. Needs someone with taste and vision at the design helm though, like Bruce Rogers with Riverside.

That limitation for the lowest state seems crazy at almost $300 with no letterpress or blockbuster author etc. Who are the 3000+ people that are going to buy that?

Sleepy Hollow seems like an odd choice to launch with, too. It's a quite short story and something a bit more popular might have gotten them more momentum.

Riccardi or Medici has a true fine press edition of Sleepy Hollow that was printed on handmade paper and can be found quite cheaply, though condition varies greatly.

Compared with the other new press announced recently Morning Bell, with their gorgeous and detailed Pinocchio a true passion project, this comes across as a low effort money grab. I urge all to demand more from presses, or low effort is all we will get.

I don't mean to be harsh but come on this is ridiculous.

No sense in piling on, so I'll just say that, for fun, I ran their hints for their next three books through ChatGPT and got:

December: The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August - Claire North
January: The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern or The Secret History by Donna Tartt
February: Dark Matter by Blake Crouch or The Infinite Game by James P. Othmer (hard to tell if this is even a real book, though)

Two inexplicably priced editions today - this, and the signed FS Dune.

OK, I will pile on by saying that I'll simply wait for the inevitable sales.

>40 edkennedy: ugly made books and overpriced. All they care is making a huge profit

>44 curiousbook: Couldn't agree more. Numbered is absolutely ridiculous at $900.

>41 A.Nobody: The December clue sounds like it could be The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue by V.E. Schwab

I'll definitely be passing on this

>46 mholt: Another easy pass.

>39 edkennedy: I urge all to demand more from presses, or low effort is all we will get.
Agreed.

An overwhelmingly poor response from those here. I wonder what the broader response has been. You have to think this is a missed opportunity. If you were starting a new business wouldn't you want to cultivate a positive brand image at the outset by exceeding customer expectations?

Just spent a few minutes on their site and, yeah, I'm in agreement that it's a pretty awful launch. Apart from the overpricing, restrictions on shipping and lack of good photos, here's a few things I noticed which make it come across as amateurish and untested:
- On the 'Editions' page, no pricing information is given until you click 'Pre Order Now', when it immediately adds it to your cart at the previously unknown price.
- If you click pre order on the Lettered, it adds it to you basket and brings up a message saying 'You may also like the Lettered Edition'. Even though you've just ordered the Lettered and you're only allowed to buy one.
- Looking at the photos of the Collector's Edition it brings up a very rough b&w sketch. So, is that what is actually going to be in the book? Or is it just a rough preliminary image? Doesn't say.
- No wonder the prices are so high, because there's a team of 8 people behind this (not even including the artist, printer and binder who actually make the book).

And yeah, what planet are they on hoping to sell 2500 Collector's editions at $265. And why is it even worth $265? I see nothing in the specs to justify that price; it seems like a pretty standard deluxe trade hardcover.

Anyway, probably a good thing. The market is becoming saturated these days and I'd rather spend my money on new presses run by truly passionate individuals, not corporate entities, which offer good value for money, such as Lyra's, CTP and Curious King.

>50 Levin40:
Cannot agree more.
All this looks like a Suntup copy cat.

Roger Grech is amazing, but the prices taste ashen in my mouth.

I can't imagine there is a market for 2500 265$ collector editions of this specific book to be honest.

>51 Ragnaroekk: Make that 2500 offset collector editions.

Hurm, the Numbered edition is the only one which tempts me, and that's largely premised on it being from the hands of Pat Randle and Roger Grech. The Collector tier is hideous, it reminds me of the so called Art Novel™ line from Bond & Grace, who seem to believe that books are meant to be props for online personas rather than things to be read. The Lettered just seems unwieldy and I assume the price there is due to the extras and the limitation.

Probably going to pass, as much as I love the work of Randle and Grech. It does save me from collecting another press's output, since none of their postulated upcoming titles appeal in the least.

>53 Shadekeep: Better to save your money for the real deal from Randle/Grech - the forthcoming 'Moving' from Nomad Letterpress. Although it's obviously a different type of book, it's interesting to compare the value proposition with what's on offer here. The standard edition of 'Moving' costs not much more than the Collector's edition of 'Sleepy Hollow' (and is well under half the price of the numbered) and for that you get full letterpress, zerkall paper, 35 beautiful woodcuts printed direct from the blocks, hand bound by Grech and a limitation of 130.

>54 Levin40: Oh yes my friend, I already have that one reserved. I'm a big Paynter fan as well, so this book hits the trifecta for me.

It's very questionable in my opinion to set a date for pre-order, have a limitation of over 2500, offer rights to the higher tiers and ship just in the USA ...
Iam not sure either that I need a second Suntup that is making a book every month for double what Paul would take...
I will watch the press the next couple of month of course, but right now iam really glad it is like it is. My Wallet couldn't handle this...

I emailed them, and got a nice response. Here's a couple of things:

1)The email I received a reply from is a Macmillan Publishers address, so Macmillan is clearly supporting them. Huge publisher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macmillan_Publishers

2)I told them that while many collectors are excited, the price is very off-putting. They said: "Your feedback is similar to a lot of what I've been hearing with regards to our first collection. I've addressed this on other social media platforms but am happy to tell you as well - I absolutely plan for Fablelistik to be a success and I'm listening to all the feedback and adjusting all future titles to reflect both specs and price points that align with expectations. Our next title will be available for pre orders on 12/3 and the three offerings in that collection will really be something special. In fact, I was with the author yesterday..."

So I'm happy to hear it sounds like they're taking the constructive criticism well, that they'll adjust price, and that they're working with a living author. I think this bodes well, and we will see!

>57 astropi: the three offerings in that collection will really be something special

Well, that's exactly what they said before the initial release, so pardon my restraint.

>58 drizzled: I totally understand. That said, I really do hope they "fix" the errors from their first book. Also, since it's a living author I'm super curious to see who it is and what they do. If they can tap-in to the numerous authors that have published with Macmillan, they might be able to offer some truly unique fine-press editions.

Hopefully along with all of the other issues they plan to address, they can do something about that name.

Doesn't sound like they plan to address the price on Sleepy Hollow, just the next titles. Guess I'll just wait and hope for a Black Friday sale!

>60 Nightcrawl: Oh good, it's not just me who stumbles over it then. It's a bit of a letter salad too, with far too many thin vertical characters impeding easy visual scanning.

In their defense, I will say that as a person who has to come up with unique names for a lot of fantasy characters and creatures, a huge swath of the obvious and easy names are already in use out there on the internet. It's increasingly difficult to come up with something that is simple, memorable, and speaks to your intent while still being original.

>57 astropi: well did they lower their price for their sleepy hollow edition? This sounds like a robotic email. Of course they gonna say that to you. They think they’re something special but I don’t see anything special. their first production speaks for itself, just inflated prices of a newcomer who thinks they all that. Collectors need to bring them back to earth

>63 curiousbook: Definitely not a robotic email. I'm hoping they lower prices going forward, and I hope they succeed. Looking forward to finding out what their next work is, and here's to hoping they lower the price on Sleepy. By the way, what do people think would be a fair price for the numbered Sleepy?

>64 astropi: from what I saw on their page no more than $450 to $500 for their middle tier edition and no more than $150 for their lowest tier edition.

>65 curiousbook: For such a short work I would agree. Honestly, even $500 for the numbered is arguably a bit high. $325 is what I would have thought their price-point should be.

>66 astropi: for the first time, I completely agree to $325. Now you talking.

>67 curiousbook: $324!

As long as the works are only available to US customers they will struggle. Trying to sell almost 3000 copies would be tough, but limiting it to one country (albeit a large one) seems unrealistic at almost any price point

They're definitely taking the Suntup approach, including offering clues as to their next releases :)



My guesses --
Dec 3: Picture of Dorian Gray

Jan 7: The Secret History by Donna Tartt

Feb 4: Ready Player One by Ernest Cline

For me, who doesn’t reside in the US, they are completely irrelevant. All the private and fine presses I buy from, wherever they are in the world, ship internationally. So, that a giant like Macmillan doesn’t manage, is just amateurish and off-putting...

>68 grifgon: Bob, I’m going to go with $1.

>72 What_What: ¢99! And not a penny more!

>68 grifgon: let’s make it $323 to make everyone happy

Price to value is just not there for this first offering.

>75 NotSoSlimShady: 100% agreed

>70 astropi: If the December 3rd is the collection they’re speaking to the author about my guess would be The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue, they seem to like fantasy and Tor is an imprint of Macmillan. Would love to have a nice edition of The Secret History.

>70 astropi: >77 yolana: I suspect the January 7th title is Ninth House by Leigh Bardugo. Once again, that is a Macmillan book. I think I see a pattern.

>77 yolana: >78 Redshirt: Frankly, if they were to stick to fine publications of their own titles that are otherwise unlikely to receive the fine press treatment, then I would have a lot more appreciation for what they’re doing.

I probably still wouldn’t be a customer, at least not for the titles mentioned so far, but it would make it more akin to a trade publisher doing their own limited editions, just more elevated.

Anyone hyped for "The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue" ?

>80 Ragnaroekk: That book had such a great premise but the execution was a big let down and for me the author failed to do anything interesting with it or write an compelling character study. I could not finish it.

>81 anthonyfawkes:
I find Fablelistik Editions rather odd, to be honest. At least in my experience, no one has responded to my emails so far, and messages left on Facebook posts largely go unanswered.

They also don't seem to place much importance on international shipping.

That being said, they do publish different books compared to their competitors, which is a good thing.
I haven’t read the book mentioned above yet, so thank you for the information.

>82 Ragnaroekk: I did notice a new clue for a March title announcement "UPCOMING Deep below the Earth lies a world beyond imagination.". There is some speculation that an upcoming Conversation Tree Press title illustrated by Tom Kidd might be Journey to the Center of the Earth based on a partial image they posted. I wonder if there will be an overlap here.

>83 mholt: Except with a larger print run and more expensive. ;)

For those interested in such things, there's an 8-minute video of Gregory Manchess working on one of his Sleepy Hollow illustrations. It had something of a Zen quality for me :)

They now have a website at https://fablelistikeditions.com/
Collector's edition looks pretty basic for US$265.
They now state in their FAQ "We are planning to open international pre-orders in the beginning of 2025​! "

>86 wcarter: The different state production updates looks straight out of Suntup, although I don't know if he originated it. It's a very handy visualization.

>87 A.Godhelm: It’s not that innovative is it? All these books have the same sequential, mutually exclusive steps, and it’s accompanied now by a checkmark showing its status.

>87 A.Godhelm: this 'small' press definitely likes to be...inspired by others. Honestly surprised this thread didn't blow up after their Abercrombie/sub press Facebook debacle. The fact they grabbed ownership of the fan group and closed it because of their own bad behavior is wild to me. 😂

>89 NotSoSlimShady: What happened?

>90 edkennedy: I would recommend more perspectives than just my own. But in essence, there were some legit questions to sub press about continuing their longstanding Abercrombie collection. Sub Press stated that they attempted for the rights but were told 'no'. This upset the sub press fans who had concerns that Fabelistik - an offshoot from Mcmillian (who has Abercrombie rights) would begin closing off doors to what was a pretty positive small press community.

This understandably made many people angry (I do not collect Abercrombie books so I don't really care). However, this somewhat confirmed that Mcmillian / Fabelistik was not dealing honestly in their entrance into the small press world.

After some critical feedback from the small press community on their page / fan page, the main mouthpiece from Fabelistik stated that they experienced threats (despite the majority of people - and even other small press leaders) expressing that critical feedback is different than threats. The group was then transitioned from one notable small press figure to the Fabelistik mouthpiece - who closed the 'fan' group.

It's a rough look but the backlash is very called for in my opinion. But as always, I recommend looking into other perspectives! Bill from Sub Press made a very open post about this on his Facebook group and fan group.

>90 edkennedy: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/6Pyi3NM9A61sKSRv/

>92 NotSoSlimShady:. Wow, unbelievable. Many of us had suspicions about these guys last month and this information appears to bear out those suspicions. They're blocking titles being published by small presses while simultaneously trying to force their way into the small press supply chains. I for one won't be buying anything from them. I've never even heard of their next title anyway.

I would also note that this will additionally impact the publication of further Abercrombie titles by Curious King.

Macmillan is one of the five major publishers. The only thing that matters there is profit and maximizing revenue.

No matter what they say, they will block extremely popular books/authors from going to other publishers. That’s 100% guaranteed. Why give away something that is demonstrably profitable just to earn a fraction of the money, when they can keep 100% of the profits for themselves?

As I said, I’m not particularly impressed with this so-called publisher. Communication is almost nonexistent, the website looks plagiarized, and everything about it seems half-hearted and not well thought out.

But perhaps things will take a turn for the better.

Sleepy Hollow is coming from Suntup, and the new book doesn’t interest me. Let’s see what else is in store...

If they were smart about this they'd focus on their stable of titles that other small presses aren't interested in, by which they could build a unique brand and angle. The obvious niche to me is not trying to convert the existing small press customers as much as trying to reel in the mainstream customers to a higher quality product. More recent titles, more focus on pop hits perhaps. That way you could coexist and retain goodwill instead of becoming another case of corporate enshittification.

>95 A.Godhelm: Their next title seem to fit exactly into the approach you describe.

>96 David_Mauduit: Yes, though it's hard to tell what they're going for with only two titles. The Facebook drama suggests there won't be coexistence with other publishers however. They only just started this venture so it's possible they can be swayed by the feedback. I'm cynical but there's always a chance.

>92 NotSoSlimShady:

I don't have an account, so can't read this, unfortunately. What does it say?

>98 SF-72: Posted by Bill from Subterranean Press:

"Hey all, Please consider this a snapshot of how I see things at the moment:

Early this year, I contacted Chris, the Sub Rights Director at Macmillan about publishing a signed, limited edition of THE DEVILS by Joe Abercrombie. We’ve published limited editions of all of Joe’s books to date, but THE DEVILS is his first with a new publisher. New publisher, new relationships, new parameters.
I made an offer, which was declined, and I was told that Macmillan planned to do something in-house.

Last week, I followed up to see if the situation had changed, and again received a polite no.

When someone in this group asked if we were publishing a limited, I mentioned the status of our offer. What followed was a number of people posting in the Fans of Fablelistik Editions Group.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I received an email from Chris asking if my offer was still on the table, with a few conditions Macmillan wanted to include. I thought it best to call Chris and I made it clear to him exactly what I posted in the SubPress Readers Group, and that I had not intended to instigate and had not participated in the contentiousness in the Fans of Fablelistik group.

We chatted about THE DEVILS, that I felt it necessary to be public about our proposed edition being turned down because of our long history with Joe, and touched on the couple of conditions Macmillan wanted included in any agreement for a SubPress edition. We didn’t reach any resolution, but the chat was positive, and we agreed to talk again.

Later that day, Chris sent an email to Taylor Armstrong (the head of Fablelistik Editions) and me, introducing us. Taylor and I spoke that afternoon.
What I came away with was the sense that, while Fablelistik has a firm grasp on book production, and reaching larger audiences, they don’t fully understand the nature of our specific collectors’ market, as evidenced by the disastrous manner in which information about the press was rolled out. Our most ardent readers are a protective lot, which has served small presses well through the years. Many of them got their hackles up.

Taylor and I agreed to continue our discussions. Based upon my initial call, I’m comfortable that there’s room us to co-exist and that the fears that they are going to hold back rights en masse is overblown.

Now, to offer some transparency:

Here’s part of an email I sent to Taylor:

Though I would appreciate the generosity, please don’t send me anything of Fablelistik’s unless I’ve paid for it, or we agree you want my input on some issue. Next week, I’m going to post that we talked, and we’ll pick each other’s brains from time to time, as I do with a very few other presses. It’s important for my reputation, and to help you reset yours, that we’re clear our discussions are generated by goodwill rather than any form of compensation.

More transparency: Fabelistik doesn’t sell books through other retailers. Should that change, I may wish to offer certain titles to our customers. I have no knowledge that their policy will change.

I’m not so naïve as to think that there are no decisions that will be made higher up that will not be in our favor. I hope my relationship with Fablelistik will be friendly and cooperative, but if I don’t believe we’re receiving a good faith exchange of information, or that SubPress’ concerns aren’t being considered, I’ll walk.
I think we all catastrophized Macmillan’s entrance into the world of specialty press publishing, in no small part because they weren’t transparent. I’ll be urging them to share as much information as they can, as a subsidiary of a larger corporation, and hope they can be of benefit to us all.

Some will boycott Fablelistik as a matter of course, which is fine. I’m of the mind that there’s potential for them to bring out some great books that other small presses haven’t.

We’ll see."

A huge company like that can't close a "fans" group. Further, if it were a "fan" group, a large company like that would not allow an employee to "take ownership" of it in order to close it down. Many (all?) of us have worked in large companies or have experience working with them - nothing leaves the four walls of an organization without having multiple reviews for risk, liability, reputation, etc.

Can you imagine the Folio Society taking ownership of the Fans of the Folio Society group on Facebook?

That an actual Macmillan employee assumed official ownership of it and closed it down therefore means they were in charge of it from the inception, and deceptively tried to pass it off as an organic fan group, by hiring someone from the community who carried along with the charade for their own profit. A fan group for a company that had so far announced/published zero books, which in itself should offend the sensibilities of reasonable people.

What's even worse, is that this entire debacle was completely avoidable, probably except for their arrogance. They could've just been honest from the beginning, and some earnest collector would've naturally created a group for them. But this is what you get by taking the lazy approach - let's just copy and paste a recipe with the least effort to maximize our profit. Definitely a big company approach to the whole thing.

Which group is now closed ?

>99 mholt:

Thank you very much. I really like Abercrombie and collect the Subterranean Press editions (as well as Curious King) and them shutting out a publisher who has done really nice editions so far is not pleasant.

>101 Ragnaroekk: Macmillan had their own "Fablelistik Fans Group" created a month ago, with the admin being the same person who admins the Suntup group, and he was doing a lot of promotion and teaser posts with breathless anticipation. You know, the partial photos, snippets of the text, THIS WILL BE HUGE!!! etc. But he was not up front about Macmillan paying him with free books to run the group.

Eventually, based on a comment the Sub Press owner made about Macmillan not granting him rights to publish the Abercrombie book, people started being very critical of Macmillan and Fablelistik in their fake fans group. That caused the admin to quit saying it was all too negative, he was going to transfer ownership to the Macmillan Director of Fablelistik. Then she posted saying Macmillan has now acquired ownership of the group (lol?) and will be closing the group in a couple days. People got even more critical, and Macmillan closed the group the next day.

That's how it all went up in flames.

>99 mholt: Thanks for sharing this. It smacks of the reflexively patrician attitudes you see at a many big corporations. Once they get a whiff of the filthy lucre they tend to circle the wagons and send out the guns. Would be nice if this time it plays out differently.

>103 What_What:
Thank you for the explanation 😊

>100 What_What: What a dog's dinner.

The market has shown it is discerning and that's healthy. It would have been depressing had everything flown off the shelves at those prices. It will be interesting to see the prices for their next launch on Dec 1 and how long they hold onto Sleepy Hollow inventory before offering a sale.

>94 Ragnaroekk: Suntup is publishing its own edition of Sleepy Hollow?

>107 ultrarightist:
Yeah, Paul said that in a live stream

One thing people like that don't seem to get is that there's room for more than one release in this kind of market.

>94 Ragnaroekk: Do we know the timeframe for Suntup's Sleepy Hollow?

>110 St._Troy:
Sadly not.

New editions have been revealed:
https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/the-invisible-life-of-addie-larue

As usually, very poor quality pictures. Feels very amateurish.
I don't find the design very special and the prices are still extremely high.

>112 David_Mauduit: Holy cats, those photos are indeed atrocious. Those are the blurry photos one expects from the less skilled Abebooks listers, not a house with a one of the major publishers behind them.

And, wow, still no international shipping! Not that I would want any of their first titles anyway...

2500 copies of the Collector’s Edition is an absolutely insane decision. They won’t ever be able to sell that much copies, even half of that would be a huge ask.

In their defense, I believe this new edition, price-wise, is in line with what other presses are doing at the moment and a step in the right direction after Sleepy Hollow. The Numbered, for instance, is $725 for a lengthy letterpress-printed novel, made with nice materials, and with some bells and whistles, and a limitation of 250. With that said, I can't dispute the other points mentioned above about the website being lackluster and the Collector's run of 2,500 being ridiculous. I'll add that the number of illustrations is disappointing - two single-page spreads and two 2-page 4-color spreads - in the Numbered. The Collector's apparently only has 3 Polaroids - there's no mention of other illustrations.

I suspect these are getting printed offset? At least, the Collector’s Edition is confirmed to be offset and the lower limitation editions don't say either way.

>116 A.Nobody: Aye, the Numbered isn't a terrible price for what is ostensibly a Nomad book, and is probably the most attractively designed of the three. (I'd personally still rather spend the money on a direct Nomad title though.) And props at least for trying to make the bottom tier somewhat unique with the inclusion of the Polaroids, though the print run "limitation" is way out scope. Assuming the Polaroids are genuine originals, that means they had to take at least 7500 of them for the books...

Giving only the lettered edition what you might call a decent number of illustrations is a really bad joke for me. If that's how they work - the Collector's Edition being bare bones in that regard, and the numbered edition being barely better with just four illustrations - I'd never but this or another title from them. And as has been said, the presentation and photos are amateurish.

>117 921Jack: You have to hit the individual title pages for the details: https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/the-invisible-life-of-addie-larue/pr...

Here's the full specs on the Numbered:
· Print run of 250
· Bound by Shepherds Bookbinders
· Letterpress printed on munken lynx rough paper by Pat Randle & Ellen Bills (Nomad Letterpress)
· 448 pages
· 7 x 10
· Quarter goatskin leather binding with handmade Nepalese lokta paper with copper foiled hand screen printed blossom garden design over the boards
· Rigid slipcase in japanese black mohair cloth
· Black satin ribbon marker
· Edges sprinkled with copper and black calligraphy inks
· Includes two single page spreads and two 2-page 4-color spreads from Dina Brodsky
· Includes an exclusive in-world map of Manhattan and Brooklyn designed by Virginia Allyn
· Includes exclusive designed insert that includes signatures from all artists and collaborators

>120 Shadekeep: Strange to choose the Lynx paper instead of the Pure. Usually publishers select whiter papers for illustrations but here that is not relevant. If the weight of the paper is not high it is also not that high end for a Numbered edition. For example, most of CTP standard editions are in Munken Pure Rough 120 gsm.

>121 David_Mauduit: It's because even though all the actual work is being done by reputable craftsman, the publisher still selects the materials and this publisher doesn't have a clue what they're doing in regards to fine press.

This press is like a wish.com version of Lyra’s but with actual Lyra’s pricing.

>120 Shadekeep: Good to know. I did not realize the titles were links lol

>112 David_Mauduit: I am unable to understand the justification for the $185 price of the Collector's Edition. No art, no slipcase, not signed, and an egregious print run.

>125 drizzled: Laser-cut wooden bird pasted to cover and possible chance of getting one of the signed Polaroids? Hmm, thin gruel if so...

>125 drizzled: tbh I suspect we (people who are frequenting places like this, a forum dedicated to fine press books) are not necessarily their target audience. I imagine they are more interested in finding people who are fans of the author / fans of the book versus people more interested in the craft of fine bookmaking itself.

I agree, $185 seems like a ridiculous amount of money to be charging, but I also don't know much about V.E. Schwab. Wikipedia says The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue was on the NYT bestsellers list for 37 consecutive weeks relatively recently, so maybe a market for a book like this exists amongst all of those readers. Makes me wonder if we are going to start seeing "fine press" editions of books like "Fourth Wing" - I imagine those would fly off the shelf regardless of the price tag / edition size.

>127 921Jack: I read The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue two years ago and was disappointed as I had had high hopes for the premise. The prose was good. However, it might be an age/gender issue; I'm not very hip. I might buy a Folio Society effort.

>127 921Jack: I think you've nailed it - these are books aimed at fans of the author, not at fans of books.

Presumably the publisher sees it as another tier they can offer to those fans ("and if you'd like a collectable edition of your favourite book, we happen to have one right here!") rather than an imprint that will have fans collecting every edition they publish - though if they can pick up a few of them along the way, so much the better

>129 Grofield63:

They won't pick me up with only four of eight illustrations in the only edition that I would consider acceptably priced, and only 6 out of eight in the rather expensive numbered edition, even for a book I really like. That feels like a rip-off to me. But you might be right that people less experienced with books might fall for it. I'm not entirely sure, though. Outlander has a very large following, and Suntup had problems selling their (excellent) edition even after the author finally mentioned it on her Twitter / X. My impression was that quite a few people who are used to 'regular' books and their prices were bowled over by the Suntup prices. I'm sure that will be the case with Fabelistik, too.

>129 Grofield63: I think you're right that the only way forward to them is to try and open up a new audience. But I don't see any signs of that thus far - even though they apparently have a member of their team dedicated to 'brand marketing'. All I see so far is a few half-hearted attempts to market to exactly the current small/fine press publishers audience, by unashamedly coping the Suntup model (even down to the monthly release schedule, without first releasing anything or building up a customer base), trying to open up a short-lived 'Fans of' FB page (similar to the pages for Lyra's, Curious King, Suntup, CTP etc but not actually started by fans) and trying to pay one of the most prominent members of those pages to try and win the rest of us over.

I agree with >130 SF-72:: I think there is a huge difference between a having a mega mass market best seller, and finding an audience willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a copy of said book. Personally, I think that a 'popular' title should have to prove itself over time before being considered for such treatment (at least a decade old, say).

>131 Levin40: If they are trying to tap into a fan (of the author) audience, it certainly does feel like they've gone about it the wrong way. As >130 SF-72: says, their efforts so far aren't enough to impress those experienced in book collecting, while their prices are too steep for those unfamiliar with the market beyond their local bookstore.

There does seem to possibly be a gap in the market for collectables priced between a regular HC and something like Suntup or Folio's offerings. Whether it's possible to create value for money as far as bindings and paper goes at this mid-point and not simply just offer sprayed edges and double-sided jackets I don't know.

But as Folio seems to have recently discovered they can jack up their prices and still sell out fast, no doubt any major publishers looking at the market are going to assume that's the way to maximise their returns rather than create a new pricing tier that may be more successful as far as sales go but not be as profitable per book sold.

>132 Grofield63: Their market positioning isn't too far off from Curious King, or where Suntup started. They're just also not nearly as impressive so far.

I get the feeling that the individual running the press and whatever Macmillan big wig OK'd this are trying to balance two very different goals.

At the end of the day, the issue is that Fablelistik books are not ensouled. Very much a paint by number approach to design.

I’m following them on Instagram and while I like some of their posts, the whole thing put together just doesn’t seem to mesh well.

>133 NathanOv: I hope you are correct that it's just teething issues and that the driving force behind it will find their way. At the moment it still feels very much like a cash grab, but that can change if people with genuine passion get involved.

This thread feels a bit like an echo chamber - Fabelisk is copying, poorly thought out and executed, etc. It's possible their intended market doesn't sit on LT discussing the finer points of typography and these will do quite well. I certainly don't blame MacMillan for trying.

>136 LBShoreBook: Well, this being the Fine Press Forum, that's the lens they are being evaluated through. Whether they are a commercial success is tangential to the discussion. The same applies to Easton and all the other "fine press adjacent" publishers who crop up on here as well.

At the moment Fablelistik seems to be chasing the market that Easton and Suntup pursue, with some leanings into the signifiers of fine press. It remains to be seen where this going in the long term, particularly as no book has been released in physical form yet. So all that they can be judged on at this point is what they make public.

>137 Shadekeep: You think that Easton and Suntup pursue the same market?

>136 LBShoreBook: It’s not terribly surprising considering how particular and consensus seeking hobby groups can be.

I think it would be fun if they pivoted more to trying to take on Folio Society and then sort of bounced back up to fine press over a couple of years (Although that’s mostly based on self interest). There seems to be more of a market gap in that range than the top end.

If they published something I thought was a must have title, I’m sure I’d find a way to convince myself it’s the peak of printing itself.

>138 ultrarightist: Less so nowadays, but there is overlap on the Venn diagram in the "collectors who want prestigious-looking volumes" market. Though the style of Suntup versus Easton is markedly different most of the time these days. (Certainly their marketing styles are worlds apart.) And I do think someone coming to both presses now wouldn't see much commonality anymore. That being said, I have books from both which happily coexist on my shelves without obvious dissonance.

>139 ensuen: I would definitely welcome an American-Based Folio competitor. Folio was my gateway into the finer press realm and I will always be appreciative of their relatively affordable quality editions. But I would love something similar on this side of the pond (those shipping prices can be nasty unless you're spending like $1,000) - haha.

I think their (Fabelistik) bad behavior / tone deaf entrance into the market has damaged my willingness to trust them for a while. But I hope they can regain the trust of the market and be another solid entrance into the space that raises all boats.

Here's a take away from the latest Curious King newsletter which seems to confirm what some of us have feared:

I think most people know that competition for printers has increased recently, especially with the introduction of a “big 5” backed new entrant with big plans… I’ll just leave that there.

So yes, the monthly release plans of these guys, coupled with their use of some of the same suppliers as several other small presses, means it's very likely that the likes of CK and CTP could face higher prices, longer queues, delays and in the end fewer titles released. I very much hope that if Fabelistik are successful they will eventually open their own in-house printer and binder. If Nomad do a Fabelistik title every month I can't see them having time for much else!

>142 Levin40: On the flip side, what a wonderful development for the printers. For a business that must have razor thin margins, it's great to see the demand to keep them running.

I agree but it seems that at the same time, judging by the comments on this forum, the quality of these printers is in decline, perhaps as a result of pushing out more projects quickly.

>144 edkennedy: Some of that could also be down to the fact that this is job work for those printers, and certain factors may be dictated to them by the client that they themselves wouldn't choose for their own work. Paper selection is an example.

>142 Levin40:
Isn't it funny at all that Fablelistik Editions uses UK printer since they are located in the USA. (Yes, I know, CTP is doing the same from Canada)
Maybe Anthony (CK) needs to outsource to the USA then, which of course would increase the prices, because the books are being bound in the UK.

I guess we will see what's happening in the next years. It seems like there is more demand for letterpress printed books, than actual printers available.

>146 Ragnaroekk:

"It seems like there is more demand for letterpress printed books, than actual printers available."

Which may prompt more printers to enter the letterpress printing business - unmet market demand and all that.

>147 ultrarightist:
That would be awesome, but it will take some time to make a reputable name and master the craft if you're a newcomer.
Nomad and Hands and Eye will be busy, that's for sure...

>142 Levin40: I’m struggling to see this as a good thing, and frankly any arguments on how it could be fail to hold up for me.

If Nomad had been co-opted to print toilet paper during the pandemic (I know, absurd example, but just hear it out), halting production on all of their small / private press work, would we be saying “good for them getting the business!” and “don’t worry, new printers will take their place!” ?

The fact of the matter is that an outside entity is tying up resources to produce an almost entirely different sort of product at the expense of true fine publishers.

>149 NathanOv: While I hope that Pat wouldn't have taken the work if he felt it would compromise his workload, I can see how it still might end up being a kind of Faustian bargain. If there are X titles fighting for the limited pool of Y printers, than a group with Big 5 dollars behind them is likely to win. Personally, I hope he is using the job work assignments to train his interns and produce the next generation of printers. And that the publisher eventually invests in their own printshop, increasing job opportunities for folks who want to be printers.

I'm striving to see a rainbow here, but there's a chance it's just astigmatism instead.

>149 NathanOv: If they are successful, maybe they would bring printing in house (something Amaranthine did for example), and therefore the drain on Nomad and Hand & Eye etc. resources would be only temporary. There must be some more unused Heidelbergs just sitting around somewhere.

>143 LBShoreBook: Until, with limited supply, Fablelistik (what a shitty name, I hate typing it) is able to outspend other smaller presses and the printers go with them instead. Leaving the smaller presses with nowhere to go, longer lead times, and pressure on their margins so they go out of business. But hey, at least Macmillan is going to add a bit more to their margin, and add to their one billion dollars in revenue.

>152 What_What: I suppose if you hate capitalism you'd prefer an alternative approach? Maybe a book czar to allocate resources efficiently on behalf of the collective? I suspect the market will be fine - if there is that much demand guess what, supply generally increases with entrants into the market. Crazy but true.

>153 LBShoreBook: I’m sorry, but since when is a billion-dollar bag holder trying to disguise themselves as a new market entrant consistent with any system of capitalism? Supply and demand becomes irrelevant in such a case.

Add in the fact that they hold the sole rights to quite a number of previously available works for small press publication and the free market goes right out the window.

There are more excellent letterpress printers out there than you realize. You just gotta find 'em!

>154 NathanOv: so your solution would be .... ?

>156 LBShoreBook: Does one need to offer a solution in order to state that something seems bad?

>153 LBShoreBook: That’s a pretty vapid comment isn’t it?

The obvious and overarching point I was making is if you’re a fan of small presses, in general, and specifically the ones talked about often here, a billion dollar organization’s success threatens their existence.

And not only that, but they chose to enter the market by pretending to have an organically created fans group, hiring someone to pretend they were actually excited about their stuff.

>158 What_What: >157 NathanOv: I admit to being an econ major who works for large corporation. I believe in markets. The sky is not falling because of a new entrant into the market. And if that entrant needs to "pretend.... to have an organically created fans group" in lieu of an actual fan group, I fail to understand all of the gnashing going on in this thread - if their product sucks with no buyers, the project will fail. That's capitalism, no matter how much some on this thread misunderstand the concept. Anyhoo, I'll move on, it is what it is.

>159 LBShoreBook: I don't really want to get into a capitalism vs any other system argument. It's as pointless as debating religion. People have their fixed opinions and nothing will change that. But what I will say is that one of the things which has always appealed to me so much about this hobby is that the businesses involved represent something of a counterpoint to mass market 21st century capitalism. It's a breath of fresh air. The preorders and long waits (it's ready when it's ready) approach vs instant gratification; the time consuming, hand-crafted production vs the mass automated production outsourced to the lowest cost provider; the direct interaction with the creators, who have, you know, actual individual personalities vs the faceless corporate approach; the presses who are clearly driven by an intrinsic love of the art rather than just profit, profit, profit.

Capitalism has its place in the world of course, and a very central one. But if the things I listed above were to disappear I would sure as hell miss them. And if you don't care about them then why not just stick to mass market productions in the future? It's a little difficult for me to square the circle of someone being in this hobby who has no issue with major corporations - and all that entails - taking over because of, you know, 'the market'. To summarize, the modus operandi of major corporations generally runs directly against what makes small presses so appealing. That's probably why some here are 'gnashing'.

If Fablelistik really is doing one letterpress title/ month and uses only Nomad and Hands and Eye letterpress this is going to get intense. Even if Fablelistik has a big publishing house with unlimited resources behind their backs, the main goal is and will always be to make money and more of it as fast as possible. They have like what ? 8 people in the team that needs to get payed, which is crazy alone. If the numbers are red very long even one of the big five will call this enterprise to a halt.

With the way they're going about it, I really hope that they will flat on their face with their latest business model and leave fine editions to genuine fine press publishers.

>162 SF-72:
In my humble opinion they overestimate the market.
I will carefully watch Fablelistik from a safe distance. I won't say that I will never buy a book from them, but right now it's very unlikely I will do.

Maybe in the end this big 5 publisher thing won't be that bad as the prognosis diagnostics at the moment.

>160 Levin40: Well said. Believing (largely) in capitalism and being worried about the welfare of small presses are not opposing views. Not even sure what he’s arguing about, especially with the silly response to my earlier comment.

>160 Levin40: Perfectly stated, bravo.

I'm skeptical they have anything close to a sustainable customer base if established players can't shift super popular genre titles at much lower limitations. It took Books Illustrated more than a year to sell all their copies of The Night Circus, and that's a much beloved, in copyright, recent bestseller fantasy book. The same company decided Interview with the Vampire (!), and the next Morgenstern title, couldn't justify a letterpress numbered edition (presumably because of the Night Circus sales performance).

The classic four Ps of marketing (the marketing mix) are: product, promotion, price, and place.

Product: Fabilistik seems rather uninspired so far with the exception of the lettered. To reiterate the point made by many above, who are the 1000 people who are going to spend $300 USD on a rather uninspired offset edition of Sleepy Hollow? The average consumer thinks $100 USD for a book is a huge splurge.

Promotion: so far they've had a whole lot of bad press among aficionados, no sign of actually expanding the market to new customers, and no obvious killer strategy beyond regular deep discounts (assuming their stated limitations are actually printed). Deep discounts will damage brand value long term and probably lose money on a product basis.

Price: lower is not always better from a marketing perspective, but so far they come across as an Instagram drop shipper charging Dom Pérignon rates.

Place: all that said, the power of distribution networks should not be underestimated. It seems like place is the only strength I see as an outsider doing a strength/weakness analysis, apart from advantageous access to some intellectual property. (And then why start with a public domain short story? It makes no sense.)

I think this problem will take care of itself, and quickly too if they really try for producing and shifting this volume of product monthly, unless it's the vanity project of some billionaire who doesn't actually care about maintaining a profitable business unit.

>160 Levin40: Hear, hear!

I have a question related to the above and other posts made about profits/losses that I'm interested to know. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the history of fine press yet.

With the very best fine presses/publishers of the past who produced the most exemplary books, did they make losses, break even or make a profit? Or were they owned by wealthy people who could sink money into projects that interested them without much regard for huge profits?

I suppose the question is, are the most exemplary books when initially produced huge profit makers or not? I'm not talking about the secondary market afterwards. What is the correlation between the best books and initial profit/loss?

I've always assumed the fine press books are labours of love by fanatics more than money making machines.

>164 What_What: You typically make more sense than you do on this thread. I wonder what the small press printers think of another income source - Bradley Hutchinson in Austin, Scott Vile in Maine. Are they annoyed at another potential source of making money on tight margins? Maybe, who knows. This thread is all about how this will impact me, me, me, me. Anyway I'm not changing any minds nor will mine be changed so I really should move on to more interesting topics. (As an aside, I have no intention of buying any books from this venture, I am more bemused by the vitriol for them taking a punt at the business model.)

>169 LT79: It varies. Some fine presses were/are owned by folks with money to spare; others take advantage of grants & crowd-funding. Profit? I can't imagine that any of them are getting rich from their efforts. It is, I should think, rather like owning an antiquarian book store: a pleasant way to pay the rent.

>171 Glacierman: I heard something once that made me laugh:

"The goal of the best artists is to make as much money as the worst dentists."

The Fablistic thing is very interesting.

Ultimately, the thing that seems worrying is not actually Fableistik but the fact that extremely few new Heidelberg printers have opened in the past decade despite a real increase in interest in letterpress books.

>175 grifgon: Enjoy the rest of your eggnog 😊

>171 Glacierman: The only reason I ask is I wanted to know if that is the ecosystem fine press has typically thrived in (break even/marginal profit) and whether the sort of greed is good let the markets decide has ever produced the very best books?

>176 Dr.Fiddy: Glug, glug, ho ho ho!

>169 LT79: My understanding is no one (other than Paul Suntup) gets rich off publishing these kinds of books. The proprietors of small presses usually lead quite modest lives from what I have seen.

>179 What_What: Thanks. I think?

Wow, the Lettered Edition of The Invisible Life of Addie Larue is gorgeous --
https://fablelistikeditions.com/products/lettered-edition-of-the-invisible-life-...

Far beyond my price range, but if I had the money I would absolutely purchase it. The Numbered is far more affordable, and is on-par with Suntup etc. I haven't read all the back-and-forth comments above, but I personally am glad there's a new letterpress publisher, I think it's a win for bibliophiles :)

Still keeping orders exclusively to US and territories. Very jingoistic, or is it xenophobia?

>181 wcarter: That's unfortunate. Is that for both editions? They may not be able to sell Invisible Life outside the USA for copyright reasons. Sleepy Hollow is in the public domain, so in principle they should be able to ship that anywhere in the world. If not, I imagine the hurdle is likely logistics.

>181 wcarter: Probably a legal thing. FAQ says:

We are planning to open international pre-orders in the beginning of 2025​! While we work to secure rights outside the U.S. whenever possible, we cannot guarantee where all Fablelistik titles will be available for purchase. We will be clear in our announcements and on our product pages regarding each Collection.

https://fablelistikeditions.com/pages/faq

>179 What_What: Suntup and soon to be Fablelistik it looks like.

>180 astropi: Yeah the Lettered is a beautiful edition. It kind of remind me of CTP’s Solaris Deluxe edition (minus the crystals obviously).

But one thing I’m not a fan of, are the narrow margins around the text. I prefer bigger margins.

>179 What_What: Yeah, pretty much. And they have to take in commissions and often job work as well to make ends meet. And some have a Significant Other with a real job....

>183 921Jack: Makes sense. I was assuming it's because the books are made in Imperial units and it will take a while to convert them to Metric. Either that or the delay in converting the text from American to English.

>180 astropi:

If the photos are realistic, I would worry about the paper quality. The way the opened page falls in the photo it looks like very thin paper. And that at this price.

>188 SF-72: I had the same thought re the paper. It shouldn't bend like that, and to publish out of focus photos of it doing so seems very amateurish. And as for the binding, as far as I can tell it's just a photo printed onto leather, with no indication of what the leather is. Not particularly impressive given the price.

>189 Levin40: I have no interest in this book and do not have any plans to support the press, but on the details page it says the paper for the lettered edition is “handmade zerkall” which I should think is a high quality paper.

>190 Nightcrawl: Did Zerkall ever make handmade paper? I have never seen that before and I wonder if they are mixing up mouldmade and handmade paper, as often happens with new people.

>189 Levin40: it's very possible that image is a digital mockup.

>188 SF-72: >189 Levin40: Exactly. I noticed that, too. It looks very odd.

>191 edkennedy: Not to my knowledge. You may be correct though. I just assumed that there was some handmade varietal I was not aware of, but they probably mixed up mouldmade and handmade - that would make more sense.

>188 SF-72: >189 Levin40: I will say that I agree the photos should be higher quality. In terms of the paper, hand-made paper is often thick and dipped in water to hydrate, before being pressed down. It usually produces beautiful paper that has a bit of a "waviness" to it, so perhaps that is what you are seeing? At any rate, it looks great to me. Really high-quality presses such as L-D Allen would produce these books from hand-made paper that had the same look.

>195 astropi:

I've never seen mould-made or hand-made paper fall like the paper does in this photo. Paper I have seen fall like this was ultra-thin paper that is unfortunately used by a German publisher for complete works of older authors. So either this is a very poor mock-up or poor paper. If it's Zerkall I would hope for a poor-quality, probably computer-generated mock-up that doesn't represent the actual release at all. But who knows. They certainly should do better when they're trying to sell a book for about 3500$.

Another thing I noticed about this edition: They plan on attaching little crystals to the binding. While this looks quite pretty and is a cute idea with regard to the novel, I do wonder how well those will do if someone actually reads their editions. They'll likely be glued on, and I think that's a recipe for disaster.

>197 SF-72: While I think crystals in book binding is one of the silliest recent trends, at least a half-dozen reputable fine press publishers have put out books with crystals / gemstones incorporated into their lettered editions over the past few years.

I have no clue how well they’ve held up, that’s just one design detail that I wouldn’t attribute to this publisher’s lack of experience with fine press.

>196 SF-72: Definitely, and certainly not in any of the many Allen Press editions that I have.

>198 NathanOv:

I wasn't putting that down to lack of experience, but in the few cases where I saw this kind of thing (sticking minerals or other objects to the cover of a book), I did wonder if those will actually hold up to reading, as opposed to being kept nice and safe on a shelf. Which is never the purpose of a book for me, my main joy comes from reading a beautiful edition, not just looking at it.

>200 SF-72: IMHO, when you start sticking objects to a book cover, you no longer have a book. Rather, you have an art object that looks like a book. The binder Gary Frost was noted for that at one time.

>201 Glacierman:

Exactly.

I'm also not a fan of things stuck on books. That said, adorning books with jewels etc. is nothing new. I found this book online, and supposedly it's from 17th century Armenia --



Too gaudy for my taste, but all that said, again nothing new with blinging covers. However, I suspect older books like that are fastened mechanically while probably crystals etc used today are glued. No doubt at some point the glue will eventually disintegrate. Could be 25 years, or 100 years, but it will.

>203 astropi: Certainly nothing new, but I still maintain that it’s being overdone lately.

Not a design practice that needed to make a resurgence in my opinion.

>201 Glacierman: >203 astropi: Interesting take, but what about veneers? Inlays? Stamped materials? I think it’s perfectly okay to get creative with bindings as long as it suits the purpose of the book.

One of my favorite fine press books has a small medallion embedded in the front board and is still perfectly readable.

>204 NathanOv: Personally, I don't mind if things are embedded within the cover. For me, it really comes down to

1)Is something sticking out?
2)Is is it glued?

If the answer is no to both questions, I probably won't have any problems :)

>204 NathanOv: Well, if it interferes with the ability to put it on the shelf.... Of course, such a ... book ... can be put into a clamshell which would allow shelving.

One of the most egregious of the "art object" style of binding was done in 1974 by Gary Frost. It was exhibited in 1978 by the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art in an exhibition called Hand bookbinding today, an International Art. The book is described as follows:

Moses David. A series of tracts published by the Children of God, London, 1973-74. Bound in one volume. Native-dyed Niger goatskin with tight joint and five raised bands on spine attached to wooden boards. On-lays include styrene capsules set in bitumen containing debris from early books, and miscellaneous found objects. Top edge dyed red. Decorated endpapers

That "miscellaneous found objects" doesn't begin to describe the junk attached to this thing. The photo of it is rather scary. A chain with some sort of metal object attached, a wooden "sculpture" of some sort and god knows what else is attached to this...BLOB (book-like object). Hideous.

On the other hand, the vast majority of bindings exhibited were superb examples of the art and craft of hand bookbinding.

>203 astropi: I would say that your example is really one of the creation of an "icon", in the traditionally ecclesiastic sense of the word. There were specific times and regions where such things were being made and this has many of the earmarks of one. The time and place are also appropriate. It would have existed primarily as a thing to been seen and adored, rather than a book to be used weekly on the holy day. And most of the outer work would have been executed by a goldsmith and jeweler, rather than a bookbinder as such.

>203 astropi: >207 Shadekeep: Bejeweled metal bindings are often found on religious texts. I have seen some very elaborate ones on copies of the Tanakh and the Haggadah as well as books of hours, prayer books, etc. They are often personal items. Some of the Medieval books had metal bosses, often of good size, stuck on the covers. So, sticking things on bindings isn't new, but in today's world, it is a bit muchy.

Sangorski and Sutcliffe bindings in the early 20th century, too:

https://sites.utexas.edu/ransomcentermagazine/2012/12/10/sangorski-and-sutcliffe...

Famous for jeweled bindings, etc. (without becoming BLOBs). Many of these are gorgeous and read visually as strangely restrained despite the intricate details. If prices were different, I would totally be happy adding some of these to my collection, but totally different collecting community and the entry level price for some of the fine S&S jeweled bindings would yield a bumper crop of fine press classics.

I don't think current bookbinders and marketers are really up to the task of doing this kind of binding tastefully, and most of the contemporary examples I have seen (such as the Curious King amathyst) lack taste (in my opinion, obviously).

Have a look at Kate Holland's work - Breakfast at Tiffany's and Siddhartha, in addition to her portfolio.

>209 abysswalker: Reading the part about the Great Omar, I don't think that's a book you'd ever want anywhere near you. I think the British Library are tempting fate with that one.

Here's a beauty: