Jill Reads, Rummages, and Sorts Through Things in 2024 - Part Five

Just finished with a book group (the non-fiction one) where we discussed a recent title, The War of Words. The author, Molly Guptill Manning also wrote the best-selling When Books Went to War, published back in 2014. Today's discussion centered around the tensions between military officers responsible for conducting a war at kind of a cosmic level and the rank-and-file soldiers who are doing the bulk of the work and who need to vent about the day-to-day snafus.. Field stoves that blow up, the eight hours in an office typing communiques, etc. The kind of jobs performed during wartime that are not glamorous and that never received recognition with medals. Manning is writing about newspapers published by the soldiers themselves during wartime to communicate their emotions and experiences.

The book is aimed insofar as we could tell at an audience who may have been sheltered from much of what GIs experienced during World War II. As the book's subtitle indicates, the soldiers themselves frequently were generating content that was much less controlled so that family members and the general public would have a better sense for the reality of war. Where the Big Brass might want to control the message about the War in order to ensure on-going support, these guys (like Milt Caniff and Bill Mauldin) shared real moments in their work via these newspapers.

Happy new thread!
Looking forward to your continued words of wisdom.

>1 jillmwo: I have When Books went to War on my Kindle, but haven't cracked it open yet.

One of the things that Hillerman's memoir is clarifying for me about the war: the common soldiers had no idea where they were, what they were doing or what the big picture was most of the time. They were told to march, they marched. Told to stop, they stopped. Told to shoot, they shot. Told to run, they ran. They had little faith in the higherups to be giving them good orders, but they did as they were told. How many of us could do that?

I have a couple of Bill Mauldin's books, and a couple of other guys, too. Ernie Pyle being my favorite, although he was press, not a soldier.

Happy New Thread!

Happy New Thread!
*drags in massive charcuterie board and multiple bottles excellent wine*

Happy new thread!

Happy New Thread!

Happy new thread!

>7 Karlstar: Referring back to the author of Books Promiscuously Read and her point about whether reading was a virtue or not, the full quote appears below:

Reading may have benefits (we hear often about a heightened sense of empathy, an alertness to logic and nuance, and a lengthened attention span) but is not a virtue. Goodness (a refusal to inflict suffering, a curiosity about the lives of others, an inclination to serve?) has never been associated with the literary mind more than any other. Violence is perpetrated by and in the name of readers. Reading conduces to inwardness, but many good people are not inward, and many inward people are not good.

And as >8 haydninvienna: was responsible for the recommendation of this particular title here in the Pub, I wanted to share with him that my non-fiction book group selected this as our book for the December meeting. (Admittedly, something in its favor was that it was short -- 160 pages can be readily got through during a busy time of the year.)

And many thanks to >2 pgmcc: >3 MrsLee: >4 Alexandra_book_life: >5 clamairy: and >6 Narilka: for the good wishes. (And for the invisible cheese board and the excellent wine there, clamairy)

>9 jillmwo: I think I still disagree. Is the book old enough that the author is talking about reading books, or reading in general? The internet can certainly lead people astray, if we're counting that as reading.

>11 Karlstar: The book was written in 2021, but my sense is that she's talking specifically about books (although without specific concerns as to format -- ebook, audiobook, or whatever). I don't think she's talking about reading just any sort of content, such as news coverage or magazine articles about upcoming movies or whatever.

>9 jillmwo: Thanks Jill. All the best to the club, and it seems that I managed to cause a few more copies to be bought.

Happy new thread! Looking forward to more of your musings!

Well, here's something to consider. We've two weeks left in November and December 1st is the first day of Advent when the tradition is to begin the countdown to Christmas itself. A librarian on Twitter (that is, X) began a thread here (https://x.com/SketchesbyBoze/status/1858212221203173539) with a list of titles one tends to read at Christmas or during the holiday season. Books that are included are Hogfather which leads off the list, as well as things like Hershel and the Hanukkah Goblins, A Child's Christmas in Wales, Little Women and Hercule Poirot's Christmas. There are a variety of highly traditional titles as well: A Christmas Carol, The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe and The Children at Green Knowe. Now I don't know about you, but I don't generally read the *same* book every year at Christmas. Every year for me is (generally speaking) something new.

So my question is -- do any of you? And if so, why is it your specific book for the holiday season? What is the association or fond memory that causes you to pull the book from the shelf?

(If anything, I had thought I'd read some Chesterton during the season of Advent but one or two of the other folk on Twitter mentioned Mary Clive's book, Christmas With the Savages. An only child, who is somewhat self-centered as a result, is forced to spend Christmas with a very, very large rambunctious family. Which sounds kind of fun...)

I used to read A Christmas Carol every year, but I've started listening to it instead. Otherwise I've been reading other random Christmas themed books, which has been a mixed bag. Last year I read Small Things Like These which I highly recommend, and Bill Bryson's The Secret History of Christmas. The year before that I read Mr. Dickens and His Carol, which I believe was the basis for the movie The Man Who Invented Christmas. That was also decent. I will be adding Christmas with the Savages to my TBR, if I can track it down. Thank you

>16 clamairy: Until last year, I've never had a goal of reading Christmas books during Advent. Then in December 2023 I happened upon Connie Willis' short story collection, A Lot Like Christmas, and it was a very pleasant read. So I might read something Christmas themed this year, I just don't know what :)

>17 Alexandra_book_life: I'm still working on that Connie Willis book. I read about one third of it in 2022, and then another third last year. Perhaps I will finish it this year!

When the children were small I would read the poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" (better known by its first line, 'Twas the night by for Christmas) to the highly excited offspring on Christmas Eve.

On at least two years I started reading A Christmas Carol to them when they were older, and by that I am talking about their twenties. They liked it but it was too long to read in one sitting and we never got to finish it as a group reading.

>18 clamairy: Sounds like a nice way to make your Advent reading last :)

>15 jillmwo: I had A Christmas Carol on my TBR pile for last Christmas and did not get to it, maybe I will this year.

OOOooooh, look at this: https://reactormag.com/readers-pick-the-most-iconic-speculative-fiction-books-of....

It was so nice to see that I'd read a number of them (if certainly not a majority). So I can offer legit recommendations to my children of titles that they can give me for Christmas that I've not yet read.

>22 jillmwo: That's definitely an iconic list. There's a couple I still need to read.

>22 jillmwo: Thanks for this.

>22 jillmwo: That's a lovely list! There is a lot of favourites there, and some I still need to read :)))

>25 Alexandra_book_life: Same. I must be one of the only people in here who has yet to read Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. I think the size is a bit intimidating. But if I can make it through The Hands of the Emperor this shouldn't be impossible.

>26 clamairy: Silly human! I am quite sure you're up to Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. I remember doing it with a book group some years back and quite honestly, I've been thinking about doing a re-read. I don't think I spent enough time going through it on my first read and probably missed a ton of the elements in it.

>27 jillmwo: I might save it for after the holidays since my brain won't be functioning at full speed until then.

>26 clamairy: I think you would enjoy Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. The footnotes alone make it worth the read.

>29 MrsLee: You are not the first person in this group to recommend it. It seems it's one of the first books I bought after I joined LibraryThing. But it was before the groups were created, so it wasn't because of anything anyone said in here.

>26 clamairy: Just like everyone else said ;), Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell is a gem. I've read it twice, with a few years in between (the re-reread was for my book club). I would gladly read it again.

Well, this was a bit of a surprise. When I went back and looked, it seems that I read Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell back in 2005 with that group. So yes, I think I could probably do a re-read and there could be any number of things new and different jumping out.

...so just about twenty years ago...hmm.

I read Johnathan Strange and Mr Norrell shortly after it was published. By chance, in 2006, I was helping the chairman of P-con with some logistical arrangements. One of my jobs was to collect the Guest of Honour (GoH) and her partner from the airport and drive them to the convention hotel. You guessed it; the GoH was Susannah Clarke. Her partner was, and still is, Colin Greenland.

They were very pleasant people and Susannah readily agreed to sign my hardback copy of Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Colin reckoned my copy was a first edition, but I think it may have been a second printing. Either way, I am delighted to have met them and be in possession of a signed copy of that excellent book.

>26 clamairy: Add me to the list, I haven't either, though this long list (>27 jillmwo: >29 MrsLee: >31 Alexandra_book_life: >32 jillmwo: >33 pgmcc:) of recommendations that's another for my TBR pile.

Re Jonathan Strange etc: I have two copies and have had two goes at reading it, but still haven't finished. Despite that, I really think it's a terrific book and I really, really will finish it. (I might add that I have both The Ladies of Grace Adieu and Piranesi and have read both.)

Maybe we should do a group (re) read of Jonathan Strange in the new year? I've been thinking I'd like to reread it.

>35 haydninvienna: I love both of those books.

(Duplicate post removed)

>36 Sakerfalcon: Oh, definitely!

I could sign on for that kind of a group thing.

In the meanwhile, I have read The Best of Dorothy Parker. It's an anthology of both prose and poetry. Some of it is funny and some of it is downright painful.

Going on in the background (as I unearth things hidden on shelves and in storage boxes):

Murder by Candlelight - hidden away since 2013.
A Nice Class of Corpse for a book group. Another mystery I seem to recognize as having read in the past, but I can't prove it in any way. Light and humorous.
Starter Villain, a gift from one of the book group women as her selection for our read in December. As yet untouched.

For research purposes:
Agatha Christie: A Biography, one of the first authorized biographies published after her death and offering some additional details about her life. This one I've dipped in and out of, as my particular interest has to do with a specific decade of her work. I also unearthed a copy of And Then There Were None and I am absolutely floored by how creepy she was able to make it. Absolutely persuasive and therefore immersive, but decidedly unnerving.

And the weather patterns must be shifting again. I wasn't able to get a full night sleep last night; I kept waking up with the music from something I sang in high school chorus running through my head. A perfectly dreadful arrangement of Polly-wolly-doodle. Why DOES one's brain insist on holding on to this kind of crap?

Oh, and my Paperwhite (of roughly 8 or 9 years of age) seems to have given up the ghost. The screen won't clear half of the cover display.

>39 jillmwo:
Sorry to hear about your Paperwhite. That type of things is very irritating. It has never happened any of my physical books. They just fall apart after a couple of decades.

>40 pgmcc: No worries. I have a back-up set of devices. (I tend to be cautious that way.)

But one more awkward "thing". I had come across on my Kindle an old Georgette Heyer that I did not recall. The book was The Unfinished Clue. Now my buying history tells me that I acquired this thing back in 2015. There is a single reference on my 2015 reading thread, indicating that I was reading it in the context of a late afternoon coffee break. I never followed up on it in that thread, which I find curious. I assume that I either ditched the book mid-read (not a good sign) or that I felt it wasn't worth commenting on here in the Pub. My mental state might have been a bit frazzled. (I had been working for a really bad boss at the time and was hoping to change jobs as quickly as possible. Which I did before the close of 2016...)

At any rate, I didn't recall reading this Heyer detective novel so this past week, I sped right through it. There were one or two characters who were over-the-top which may also have been why I didn't encourage others to read the book here in the Pub. At any rate, just noting it here so that I can point out to others that the obnoxious characters are really quite annoying. Frankly, from my point of view, the victim of the book deserved to be knocked off and the identity of the murderer only sort of surprised me. I think Heyer took a bit of a cheap way out, as she was tying things up. (I mean, really how could one take a romance like that seriously?) I rated the book a mere 3-1/2 stars. Loosely translated, that means that it is perfectly acceptable if one is bored, looking for something to read, and in the mood for a Golden Age mystery, but it's not one to endear Heyer to the unfamiliar reader.

>39 jillmwo: Poor Paperwhite... It's a good idea to have a back-up set of devices!

>41 jillmwo: I do hope you enjoy Starter Villain! I thought it was hilarious.

Oh no! Well, perhaps you will receive a new improved Kindle as a gift on the 25th of December. I have been tempted by the new color ones, but I will definitely be waiting until they perfect that technology.

>39 jillmwo: I hope you get a new device soon. I also enjoyed Starter Villain. Fluffy but fun.

>40 pgmcc: >42 Alexandra_book_life: >43 clamairy: >44 Karlstar: Many thanks for your condolences on the death of my Paperwhite. I can wait a few months before I move to pick up a replacement.

Meanwhile, allow me to share a fun squib from a phone conversation encountered in A Nice Class of Corpse:

'What on earth are you doing in a Bishop’s Palace?’
‘I work here,’ Kipper Hollingberry replied with dignity.
‘Oh?’
‘I am his Lordship’s chauffeur.’
‘I didn’t know that was your line of country, Kipper.’
‘I have always,’ he said rather primly, ‘aspired to the quiet of a Cathedral Close. That is where I always wished to spend my later years. An ambition perhaps deriving from an early affection for the works of Trollope.’

Very British.

>45 jillmwo:
A nice nod to Trollope.

I thought of Barcherster Towers as soon as I read the first line of the extract.

Okay, sorting through and pulling out the cold weather clothing was this afternoon's chore. Theoretically at least the next week temps are supposed to only get up into the 'thirties. I've been trying to declutter this past week. Theoretically, the Christmas elves only bring you stuff if you're not hoarding.

Yesterday, we actually got to watch the Conclave movie, one instance of where the movie really is better than the book by Robert Harris. Great cast (Stanley Tucci, Ralph Fiennes, John Lithgow, etc.), great thought piece. (Some parallels to 1963 film, The Shoes of the Fisherman, but by no means, the same in terms of plot.)

Spouse is eating apple pie as his afternoon snack. I had a latte today with my lunch so I don't get to snack.

>47 jillmwo:
I have been tempted by the trailers for Conclave. I have the book but it has remained unread. The cast is one of the things prompting me to watch it.

We enjoyed watching The Shoes of the Fisherman. Anthony Quinn was great. Did you ever see Only The Lonely with Anthony Quinn, Maureen O'Hara, John Candy and James Belushi? Very funny.

>48 pgmcc: I wasn't sure about it, but my son had seen it and urged me on. It worked for me -- it didn't drag nor did it insult the intelligence. Nice cinematography and Fiennes was fabulous. (Isabella Rosselini seemed under utilized from my perspective, but her presence might well help drive international interest.) Spouse and I were musing over whether it might get Best Picture nods when the Oscar nominations get announced. The book is quite readable, but I think the movie visuals may ease the need of explaining things to non-Catholics.

Well, it's been fractured reading -- not able to settle down to anything in particular. (What does it mean when you actually dream about washing your hair? Along with the mix of dreadful singing earworms that the brain dredges up each morning, I am beginning to think the problem may be insufficient mental stimulation...)

Lets begin with me reading The Three Coffins, chiefly because I had never read the famous Locked Room Lecture that appears in the third and final segment of the novel. FWIW, I also noted that there's a too-brief segment as well about literary ghosts that disagrees at least in part with M.R. James. John Dickson Carr is telling a story that combines the ideas of folklore, and the machinery of illusion. The book is somewhat over-complicated in its storytelling (too much focus on timetables and geometric angles) so I didn't find particularly immersive. Theoretically, it is considered to be the best Locked Room mystery of all time. Thus, it doesn't hurt to read through the novel in full once, but I'm not sure that it is something I'll want to return to (other than as a reference). Essentially a professor is murdered in his study and there is no means by which the murderer could either have entered or left the building. A second murder occurs in the middle of a completely deserted street. Again, snow on the ground reveals no footprints or other traces of the murderer.

I chiefly resorted to The Three Coffins because I have been spending time analyzing one or two short stories that Agatha Christie subsequently expanded. Start with The Market Basing Mystery, then move to The Second Gong and then read the novella, Dead Man's Mirror initially published as part of the collection, Murder in the Mews. They all have something of the same set up -- a locked door, dead body, no way in or out. The murderers and the rationales behind the murders shift about a bit, but Christie was not big on the locked-room set-up insofar as I can tell.

I did reread with some nostalgia a short story Christie wrote -- The Harlequin Tea Set that features Mr. Quin. I also reread bits of Strong Poison. As I said, I'm not quite settling in.

More coffee may be needed here. I am even pondering whether or not to bake something, although I'd end up eating it and that could prove to be an issue.

I do have some non-fiction lying about. The Seven Wonders of the Ancient World by Bettany Hughes is an option as is The Written World by Martin Puchner. Neither would be OVERLY taxing. I've got a decent biography of Agatha Christie that I'm halfway through. Maybe the problem is more that I've the attention span of a gnat.

It's cold here this morning. (Even my husband admits it's on the chilly side.)

I'd said at one point I would do a series of "best of" awards during December. So touching my toe into the water, here goes with the first one. The category is Romance (Rom-Com, Romantasy, that sort of genre...) which I don't read a lot of. But these warmed the cockles of my heart which is what a good love story should do.

And the nominees are:

Paladin's Grace - The author herself characterized this as a "fluffy romance". That it is, but she provided a light and comforting read with an interesting set of constraints on the characters. The Knights are pledged to a Deity that dies and there are repercussions to that event. I'm not sure if Romantasy is my kind of thing, but this was good enough that it sent me on to the next title in the series. Oh, and the epilogue has a wonderful exchange about hermit crabs.

Vanity and Vexation - As noted in an earlier 2024 reading thread, this is something of a Pride and Prejudice variant. It had been sitting on my shelf for more than a decade and I finally got around to sitting down with it. It was most enjoyable (I snorted happily upon occasion) and I'm holding on to it. Female filmmakers should appear in fiction more frequently.

Business As Usual - I thoroughly enjoyed this one set in post-war London as well. An epistolary novel, it could be read in short blips of time and I was always cheering for the young heroine who has been educated but not really allowed to stretch her capabilities otherwise. Reassuring and humorous, the story centers around a young woman adventuring off into the world of retail employment. She does well and has the good sense to use her time well in determining what it is she wants to do. And her aunt makes for a lovely fairy godmother.

AND THE WINNER IS: Business As Usual. It was a near tie with Vanity and Vexation, but for sheer comfort reading in a stressful period, this one has to be given the edge.

By the way, I'm not characterizing these really as being "Best". The winning criteria has more to do with the way in which a book resonated with me personally, how memorable the story line might be after a period of months elapsed, and the way in which the actual writing was accomplished. Think of these as being more "notables". And of course, given that determining a great reading experience is a very personal thing, I remind you that your mileage may vary.

>51 jillmwo: Very interesting. I did read the Kingfisher. (In fact I am working on the second book in that series right now. I thought the first one was fun enough to keep going.) Of the other two I feel more drawn to Vanity and Vexation, as an epistolary novel format is not one of my favorites.

>51 jillmwo: Thank you, you made those sound quite interesting, I'm looking forward to more of your 'best of' lists.

Today's Most Notable Category is that of Best Biography or Memoir Read in 2024

American Classicist is a biography of Edith Hamilton. Victoria Houseman's work is exhaustive and interesting to those who know something of the Gilded Age and Progressive eras in the United States. In her time, Edith Hamilton, author of Mythology, was a striking woman of scholarship in the area of classical studies. The book group responsible for me reading this one managed some robust discussions over the three months that it took us to get through the lengthy title.

Prairie Fires is a biography of Laura Ingalls Wilder. What made this memorable was the author's account of the tensions between the mother and daughter team who together developed the Little House series. While it's fallen out of favor to some extent, for some generations, this was the introduction to 19th century pioneer life.

Making It So was Patrick Stewart's memoir of his life as a professional actor. I had picked this up because I'd seen Stewart's performances -- both live and onscreen. I was curious to learn more of what went on behind the scenes.

Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays The Rent represents an account of Judi Dench's career in the theater. Delivered in an interview format, there is an authentic voice infused with both serious consideration of what various roles demanded of her and humor in sharing the fun of being live on stage with other luminaries.

AND THE WINNER IS: Hands down, the memoir by Judy Dench. An entertaining light read that lends itself to any number of audience interests. Read it for the Shakespeare, read it for the parts about live theater, read it for the drawings contributed by Dench herself. I don't read biographies as a rule, but I found this one charming.

Also, we had talked about this some years back and I'm bringing it forward a second time because of a new publication from Cambridge University Press due out next week in printed form:

Library cataloguers – or at least those working within the current Resource Description and Access standard – now think in terms of works, expressions, manifestations, and item. In this important international standard, the ‘work’ is the immaterial intellectual product, such as the story of Dr Frankenstein’s monster. The ‘expression’ is its physical manifestation, such as a published novel; another expression might be the work translated into French or Russian. A ‘manifestation’ would be, for example, the first edition or a recent reprint, while the ‘item’ is the individual book, with its own annotations, binding, and printing errors, on the library shelf, or possibly a Uniform Resource Locater that provides a digital version of the Mary Shelley’s tale.

The 90-page article is a freebie until Christmas if you visit: https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/libraries-and-the-academic-book/C826BC33...

>55 jillmwo: Duly downloaded and saved for a future read.

Thank you for the link.

>54 jillmwo: Ah. Right between the eyes with American Classicist.

>57 Marissa_Doyle: I think you might like that one.

Meanwhile, I read a Georgette Heyer murder mystery over the past two or three days, Duplicate Death. Very nicely done and I hadn't guessed properly with regard to the murderer. My only issue is that she had one mystery series that were Inspector Hemingway and she had a different series with Inspector Hannasyde. I am sure that the bookshelf problem that I have encountered in the bedroom has to do with the fact that when I purchased the paperbacks I overlooked all those letters that followed the capital "H". I probably thought I was buying all the same series. Well, heck.

From his newsletter, dated today:

Otto Penzler's house in Kent, CT, is up for sale! Nestled on 8 private acres off a secluded road, this 5,800 square foot stone and stucco Tudor with a distinctive turret and charming diamond-paned windows stands as a testament to timeless elegance. Greeted by a whimsical gargoyle at the entrance, the property is a storybook embodiment of architectural splendor. A bibliophile's paradise awaits within the walls of a 3-story library, where custom-built mahogany shelves used to hold Otto's stunning rare book collection. This property is a rare find for those who appreciate the grandeur of a bygone era, seamlessly integrated with the comforts of modern living.

Check out the listing: (https://www.williampitt.com/search/real-estate-sales/13-cobble-heights-road-kent-ct-06757-24037584-42586486/) All the man is asking is a mere 4 million or so and speaking for myself, the library shelf space alone would make it worth that...I could keep ALL the books!!

The Most Notable Twisting-the-Tail-of-the-Reader Experience in 2024

A variety of choices here, crossing well-established genre boundaries

West Heart Kill - The thing that made me sit up and take notice of what was on the page was his clever rendition of a ‘70’s cocktail party. No individuals are noted – none of the usual dialogue structure of “he said” or “Melody said”. For roughly a page of text, you get snippets of conversation and those snippets showing country club conflicts and simmering tensions prove to be useful to the story. I’d never seen conversation shared in quite this way and I didn’t realize how important the treatment might be initially. (Once I did, I flipped back to that segment and reviewed the section.) Quite memorable as a story-telling technique. The whole book is a novel send-up of the traditional detective novel of manners.

Ghost Riders of Ordebec - An unfamiliar element of folklore was used to draw me into the crimes here. Quite memorable, not to mention that it may cause one to wonder about the mental health of the historic French peasantry and the modern police force. From 2005, a very neatly wrapped package in the Adamsberg series by Fred Vargas.

Mortal Love - Still mulling this one, published back in 2004. The key phrase and indicative characterization encountered in the book was Manderley on Bad Acid. There’s a really interesting imagining of worlds encountered within worlds. Is it bad acid or is it a mad artist’s fantasy or is this a cross-universe story? Lots of symbolism.

Edith Holler - I was quite taken by this 2023 novel. Presented as historical fiction, it is actually about the soul of live theatre in the modern age. Very gothic and creepy at points, it offers a ruptured family, a dramatic troupe of players, and a hidden cohort of long-dead ghosts. Excellent Gothic stuff best suited to a November read. (Or even a December read if serious ghost stories are part of your Christmas celebration.)

AND THE WINNER IS: West Heart Kill. It’s not about who done it, after all. Or is it?

BTW, I'm seriously considering a trek thru War and Peace in the coming weeks; however, I think it is best done during daylight hours and using two different translations, one blessed by the author himself ninety years ago and one of the more modern in tone.

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying a couple of mysteries by Georgette Heyer. The stylistic differences in her work vs works of Christie, Sayers, or Lorac. Use of humor is key in the Inspector Hemingway titles. (I particularly like Envious Casca as a Christmas murder.)

Edited to correct the touchstone as identified by clamairy below in #72. Original time stamp of the post was Dec 6 at 4:52 p.m.

>60 jillmwo: none of the usual dialogue structure : this might be similar to something that Alfred Bester does early on in The Demolished Man. Just snippets of "dialogue" at a cocktail party, without any one "speaker" being identified. The quotation marks in each case are because all the "speakers" are telepaths, and there are no actual spoken words.

>60 jillmwo: & >61 haydninvienna:
Máirtín Ó Cadhain's Graveyard Clay (aka "The Dirty Dust" in another translation, but I recommend the one titled "Graveyard Clay") is entirely comprised of conversation without the speakers being identified directly. Through their style of speech and what they say the reader gets to know who is speaking.

This book was written in Irish during the period from 1945 - 1947. Ó Cadhain's Irish was considered extremely good and this led translators to stay away from the task of translating the text to English until 2015 despite the book being regarded as a literary masterpiece. In 2015 two translations* came out, "Graveyard Clay" and "The Dirty Dust". The former is the truer translation with the latter being translated with a view to modernising the conversations rather than being a strict translation from of the Irish. I prefer "Graveyard Clay" because "The Dirty Dust" loses some of the authentic feel of the conversations.

Who is talking in the conversations?

The people in the village graveyard. Not the visitors; the permanent residents.

*These were the first translations of the work, and interestingly enough they are both published by Yale University Press.

>62 pgmcc: As one who was hit by that bullet from you in the last year or so, I can heartily second your recommendation of "Graveyard Clay." I was fascinated by what the author did.

>62 pgmcc: Peter hit me with it too, in Hodges Figgis in Dublin yet.

>62 pgmcc: Have added this one to my wishlist because Graveyard Clay sounds *really* interesting. Also the Alfred Bester title.

My primary beef has to do with the bunch of you revealing these wonders when I've just publicly stated my intent to try to wade through War and Peace in 2025. After all, I did just read a book I'd acquired back in 20-teen-something...It's not like I was whining about needing new recommendations. Sheesh!!

>65 jillmwo:
I thought I had that Bester novel, but if I have I have not catalogued it. It is one I intend to read. I now have another reason to hunt if down. I have read his The Stars My Destination and found it thought provoking. My review reminded me of my views. I read it eleven years ago.

>64 haydninvienna:
That was a good evening.

>63 MrsLee:
It took a little while to get into the style, but I was sad to come to the end of the book.

>66 pgmcc: I have a copy of The Stars My Destination on the shelves as well. I enjoyed it, at least in part due to the parallels it had to The Count of Monte Cristo.

>64 haydninvienna: You know, I had been under the impression that the local constabulary force was supposed to intervene in such instances of assault.

I'm still contemplating War and Peace. I just can't decide if I am better off with the edition that provides a translation of the French language bits in each page's footnotes or if I should just go with the version that moves ahead entirely in English. I did see that Tolstoy himself acknowledged that readers might find it a bit discombobulating to have characters speaking in both languages (French & Russian).

In other news, did you know that you can find groups that read the 361 chapters of Tolstoy's masterwork across the space of a year? They take just four days off. Apparently all of the chapters are generally shorter than 10 pages.

>69 jillmwo:
I had been under the impression that the local constabulary force was supposed to intervene in such instances of assault.

We had a war of independence that ended with the formation of the Irish Free State in 1922. At that point the Royal Irish Constabulary ceased to exist and An Garda Síochána (The Guardians of the Peace), the Irish National Police and Security Service, was established. The name was designed to avoid the term "police" as Irish people had suffered so much under politically controlled police forces. The term constabulary also fell into disuse in Ireland and would be associated with British police forces.

In addition, An Garda Síochána is one force and operates throughout the whole Irish state; there are no local law enforcement forces.

I knew you would like to know the detail.

To my knowledge, hitting someone with a Book Bullet has not been identified as a crime in the Irish state legislation, and hence An Garda Síochána would not be interested in any incident relating to a person being hit by such a projectile.

>70 pgmcc: To be fair, >64 haydninvienna: left it in doubt whether he had merely been hit with a book bullet, or whether you had clobbered him over the head with the actual item.

Please, how would I pronounce Síochána? This has been one of those words I meant to ask you about from Caimh McDonnell books.

>60 jillmwo: I'm enjoying the way you have chosen to present your "best of" lists this year. I still need to get to Mortal Love! (I think your tag is pointing to the wrong book, BTW.)

>69 jillmwo: I have read The Stars My Destination and I can even visualize the cover, but I don't own it. I will have to correct that!

Also had to correct my typo. 'down own it'?

>71 MrsLee: Just a BB, and Peter is quite right: hitting someone with a BB is not an offence under the law of Ireland (nor of any other jurisdiction that I know of). I believe that Peter would never be so obstreperous as to hit anyone with an actual book, in Hodges Figgis or anywhere else.

I used to pronounce the word something like "Shockona" and the Irish seemed to understand, but then they used to mock my pronunciation of Irish. (I firmly believe that the spelling conventions of Irish were designed to confuse monoglot Anglophones. This is probably why in English the gardaí are generally just called "guards".)

>71 MrsLee: & >74 haydninvienna:
Richards pronunciation is not too far off. I suggest the following phonetic spell with the proviso that it be said very quickly.
She-aw-kawna.

The 2024 Award for Memorable Weirdness of the Imagined World

Let’s bring forward the following titles:

I don’t recall (chronologically, at least) when, during the year, I read Witch King but I did so with two separate book groups. One has to give Martha Wells credit for creating an extraordinary world. There was so much in this to keep straight as the main protagonist kept shifting bodies and the world in which s/he moved was populated by mythical half-human, half-serpent beings. Definitely off-beat and not to everyone’s taste.

Equally off-beat was Edith Holler, because while set in the historically documented city of Norwich of Edwardian England and in the physical setting of a theater, the book was populated with a variety of curious beings. Gaunt aged humans, the ghosts – the fairy tale family members. As always, the theater’s operation is half real and half imagined. The audience out front don’t see half of what goes on behind.

Lords and Ladies is comically weird. Set in Shakespeare’s own imagined world in a kind of mythical dreamland, it is fortunate that the practical thinking of our favorite witches can keep us grounded as we move through the story. But then again, you have to think about Pratchett’s dark elves. Even Greebo was off his feed, so to speak. Greebo!

And finally, one needs to armor oneself against the ways of the world encountered in The Seventh Bride. It looks familiar, safely traditional, but the magic running throughout suddenly upends one’s safe sense of normalcy. The shifting floor is a checkerboard of black and white, The clock is a portal into a different dimension. And scarecrows can suffer from thirst. Set alongside Angela Carter’s The Bloody Chamber, this one restores the sense of horror to the old tale of Bluebeard.

I feel as if I may have read many peculiar stories this year -- more than usual --but that may just have been the disorientation of an odd election year. No wonder reading Agatha Christie served as a reminder of how ordinary life was supposed to go. (Give me a good, solid instance of a definite murder with a logical rationale revealed by the end.)

AND THE WINNER IS: (after much back-and-forth) Witch King. This one is totally unlike anything else Wells has written insofar as I know and the reading experience was slippery. Disconcerting. But certainly memorable and demanding of one’s attention. I thought it was interesting that folks here in the Pub had such differing experiences in reading it.

>70 pgmcc: You're quite right to clarify the historic division between constabulary and Garda. And a pronunciation guide is always useful.

And let me say loudly at this point, that a good book recommendation is not a criminal action (except insofar as it creates difficulty for the recipient struggling to get on top of a growing TBR pile.)

>77 jillmwo:
Speaking of which, have you read...

:-)

>77 jillmwo:
...except insofar as it creates difficulty for the recipient struggling to get on top of a growing TBR pile.

Various management and leadership programmes I have been subjected to fortunate enough to attend, have given de-stressing advice about not giving any energy to things that you cannot do anything about; just accept them and carry on. There are things you can control. There are things you can influence. There are things you cannot do anything about as they are outside your control. I consider my TBR pile to be in the third category and therefore do not worry about it at all.

>78 pgmcc: and >79 pgmcc: You are a wicked man with your off hand recommendations and useful rationalizations.

More Memorable Reading Awards (Fantasy in 2024)

I read a number of novels and short works in the fantasy genre across the months of 2024. Generally speaking, these were read without much in the way of expectation. I needed an escape of sorts, but I also look for a certain blend of that which is familiar mixed in with that which is striking or delightfully unexpected. This year, I had a surprising amount of luck in selections.

Emily Wilde’s Encyclopaedia of Faeries A delightful discovery, the narrative is told in the form of a journal over a three-month field study. We have Emily and Brambleby – she’s a serious scholar and he is somewhat inexplicable. The Fae are frightening in many ways, stealing children and leaving changelings in their stead. One should be wary of the boggart. Life in the field is complex and Emily is not entirely comfortable in the environment.

Mary Ellen, Craterean, strictly speaking, doesn't really fall into the category of fantasy. It might more correctly be seen as fitting into the category of science fantasy. But what makes it such a charming and reassuring read is the common sense built into the Crater school environment. Write your parents every week. No running in the hallways, lest a prefect catch you. At the same time, there is a naiad, a being we might view as being mythological, except that this is Mars. Mary Ellen is having to adapt to a more formal educational environment and the question is whether she can succeed. It’s so different from her home. Equally charming are some of the quiet touches to the book; the title for Chapter Two hearkens back to a chapter in The Wind in The Willows.

Thornhedge is an award-winning re-fashioning of Sleeping Beauty. A novella by T. Kingfisher, Our protagonist is Toadling, and like Mary Ellen, she too is outside of her familiar environment. But she’s amazing. One quick blockquote because Kingfisher’s prose is good:

Toadling felt magic roll over her like the tide, half-sweet, half-salt, and she let out a gasp and laughed and sobbed into the goddess’s silver fur. They came to a stream overhung with branches, where waterweed grew thick among the stones. Toadling did not remember getting down from the goddess’s back and did not see her leave. She saw only the water. She fell into it, scrambling over the stones to the deeper channel. Her skin sang with the touch and she plunged her head under the surface, gulping it through her damaged throat, and let out a squalling cry that echoed along the riverbed. It never occurred to her to doubt her welcome. Such was the gift of a child raised with love.

And while it was a close thing, THE WINNER IS: Mary Ellen, Craterean. Just on the basis of the bracing common sense built into the tale. From my perspective, common sense is important, even when escaping from harsh reality via fiction.

>80 jillmwo:
I am just trying to save you a lot of stress. It is all in your best interest.

:-)

>81 jillmwo:
By the way, I would like to add my liking of your "Best of year awards" reporting. Very interesting and dramatically presented. Before I click the "Spoiler" mask I imaging a drum-roll in the background.

I agree with >83 pgmcc: on the "best of's". Only problem is, many of the award nominees aren't easy to find here. In particular, the Crater School books are ridiculously expensive and none of the libraries has them.

I am very much enjoying your Best of the Year Awards! The categories and nominees alike are enticing!

>83 pgmcc: >84 haydninvienna: >85 Sakerfalcon: Thank you for the encouragement. Things that I drafted back in November get edited a bit here and there in terms of what gets included and where. (Coming soon is one category with only one title and therefore only one obvious winner. Unless I can cheat quickly and get something unusual in under the wire...)

In the meantime, here's an interesting essay about reading 100 pages per day:
https://thelampmagazine.com/issues/issue-26/the-one-hundred-pages-strategy

>86 jillmwo: That's an interesting article. But does he ever have reading slumps? Also, I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of walking down the street late at night reading the old Everyman edition of Johnson's Lives of the Poets. I have that, and I can affirm that the type is quite small.

>86 jillmwo: That article may be preaching to the choir here. Hmmm, now I'm hearing each member of the pub joined in singing the praises of reading.

Anyway, what he describes was the way I used to read when I was raising my children. I read more than 100 books a year then. This year (not counting children's books, which I do count) I am somewhere around 50. Better than I feel like I was doing. I don't keep track of pages read, only books.

I do agree about the cell phones though. Pretty sure I read more when I purpose not to look at mine. Get more of everything done.

>86 jillmwo: Interesting article. I'm going to try and spend a little time reading at lunch, though it won't be for long.

As for "reading while walking or sitting outside is itself an important part of the hundred pages strategy." I used to know a guy that spent his lunch time at work out walking and reading. I'm not sure I want to mix reading and walking.

>88 MrsLee: Singing along!

>89 Karlstar: Flash mob anyone?

I used to walk and read, then walk and listen to books, then I decided I was missing out on the beauty and sounds around me by doing that, so I went back to walking and focusing my attention on the here and now. Now I'm avoiding activities that might make me fall, so I won't be walking and reading again.

That writer had a thing for the printed page, but I think all forms of reading are good. That's why those are his rules for himself, and only suggestions for others who want to change their reading habits.

>88 MrsLee: I am singing along too :)

The article was interesting. I tend to bump into things if I read and walk, so I wonder how the author manages. Grabbing a book every time I have a chance is my strategy :D, with the internet being a terrible distraction.

I can't walk and read, never have been able to. I get a lot of reading done on public transport, which I guess is an advantage of not driving. And I read before bed every night, even if I can only manage a few pages before dropping off to sleep.

It should go without saying that one must never go anywhere without bringing a book.
This is a rule for life! Never never never leave the house without a book (or ereader)! And maybe a spare one, just in case.

>92 Sakerfalcon: Never never leave the house without a book (or ereader)

I concur! This is the reason I like my long commute - hello, reading time! :)

>92 Sakerfalcon: >93 Alexandra_book_life: I take a book with me every chance I get. Waiting rooms are great for reading.

A couple of things occurred to me as I read the aforementioned 100-pages-per-day piece.

First of all, the way he approaches it, the important thing is long-form titles; he dismisses the shorter length material found in reading periodicals or consulting reference books of whatever genre. This says to me that he is differentiating between the types of tasks that reading satisfies because he’s focused on linear narrative. What’s missing from his piece is whether he makes a point of breaking off at the end of a chapter or if he doesn’t pay attention to that kind of built-in structural pause.

This is important if one adopts as he does the time-blocking perspective. A block here and a block there, slotted in across the day. (Note his first block of reading – 25 pages with written note-taking – is before 9am, with a cup of coffee and a cigarette – that last being a truly disgusting habit at that hour of the day…). His second block is at lunchtime and a third block is late in the afternoon. Finally it’s after dinner that he enjoys his longest block of approximately 90 minutes. I did wonder if his wife was allowed the same number of reading blocks. Now, this man is an editor of a magazine publication and it might be useful to know more about his working environment. It seems as if he’s working from home a good deal of the time. (He does mention reading 15 pages in a break room and in my experience, such work areas can be fraught with multiple interruptions by those hunting down a boss or subordinate.) But

Of his 9 “rules”, most of them strike me as simply common sense. The forced sedentary time on an airplane is indeed a great period for reading something, but in my experience, 90 minutes of uninterrupted reading in flight was the most my brain (or perhaps eyes) could handle. At some point you need to look up and refocus at a distance. And yes, always have a book with you one way or another.

I do recognize his point of reading in “phases”. This year, pgmcc recommended The Hymn Tune Mystery which sent me off on an extended pursuit of written works either written during the 1920’s and/or about the two inter-war decades. I read Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and The Importance of Being Poirot as a result. I like following my brain’s impulses that way when reading. But it can distract from other in-depth reading.

All that said, as Sakerfalcon and Karlstar note above, it can be really challenging to walk and read at the same time. And I wonder seriously about someone reading attentively while walking at night, given the general distance between street lights. (All while ignoring one’s friend.)

Most Notable Classic Literature Read in 2024

I didn’t read anywhere near as many classic novels in 2024 as I read during 2023. And there was a certain intent to that. It’s just too easy to fall into a mindset of 100 years ago rather than recognizing that change in story-telling is naturally on-going and continuous in real life.

In the modern world, our heroes and heroines need to wrestle with artificial intelligence, ubiquitous surveillance, and the let-them-eat-cake mindset of the business community. That means less of the charming ingenue-type heroine in the titles we read in favor of more competent leaders forging ahead.

At any rate, I do not regret reading or re-reading any of the following. They are good solid reads, even if one or two were written more than a century ago.

The Law and the Lady was published back in 1875 so just about 150 years ago. The lady is actually a fairly competent, married woman who is bound to discover what the story is with her secretive husband’s weird behavior. I enjoyed this one, most particularly how a critical clue was tied to work at the buried city of Pompei. And of course, the guy in the wheelchair is quite outside of our usual stereotypes. Quite a lively and unexpected read.

Rudyard Kipling’s Kim is a fundamentally good person. He’s an observant and adventurous adolescent who manages to thread his way in and out of both the uniform (if sometimes mindless) rigidity of the British military and the friendly chaos of India’s tribal populations. He accompanies the elderly Lama who is questing for his River. The Lama in turn seeks to ensure Kim’s education. The younger man gets caught up in the Great Game and is clearly destined for success in that service.

Driven by the multiple and robust recommendations of various souls here in the Pub, I dug out On A Winter’s Night, A Traveler without any idea of what to expect from it. I think that is essentially the point of the narrative. Is it a mystery, a story of spies, or a Russian tragedy? It’s all of those things and I still think I need to revisit it in order to properly understand the authorial intent. The contribution of the translator was important. And I do thank those of you who kept shoving Calvino at me; if I haven’t said so before, the perusal of Why Read The Classics was as thought-provoking as anything provided by Alberto Manguel in 2023.

Finally, I read T.S. Eliot’s Murder in the Cathedral which is just as difficult to categorize as Calvino’s Traveler. Is it poetry? Is it a play? Does one have to see it on stage to properly “get” Eliot’s point? I watched a 1951 British film production of it, but found the rhythm of the words on the page to be most memorable. It really did resonate.

AND THE WINNER IS: Making a decision here was both easy as well as challenging. Each of the nominees was memorable in its own way and made for great reading across a year’s worth of ups and downs. Kim was reassuring. The Law and The Lady was fun. On a Winter’s Night, a Traveler was unexpected. But I’m plumping for Eliot’s Murder in the Cathedral. It is a very slim book, one I read over the course of a weekend, but the use of language rivals that encountered in Calvino.

Edited to fix a touchstone, original post time stamped at 10:17am, December 12.

>96 jillmwo: Yay! I backed that winner!

>96 jillmwo: How old does a book have to be to be considered classic literature? I'm having a hard time putting the Calvino in that category, since I was a teenager when that was published. :o(

>98 clamairy:. Quite honestly, the (not very lengthy) thought process was this. I know that this is a text that is taught to students as an example of post-modern literature. As a consequence, the book is sold as a part of such conservative series as the current Everyman's Library and Vintage Classics. So other people have already plumped the title into this category.

You can currently buy On a Winter's Night, A Traveler as an AMZ ebook at the bargain basement price of $1.99. This fact tells me that the publisher is not overly concerned about the long-term market value; there's an on-going market demand. The book has had recognized influence and is apt to continue to wield a certain amount of influence over a rising population.

At the risk of "outing" you on your age, the book was originally published back in 1991 with the English translation being published in 1999). It's had a good run for 30+ years . Now whether it will run another 30+ years I agree may be in question. Younger generations don't read the way that older generations have done and the book is not one that can readily be migrated to the movie or television screen. Which is how much of classic literature gets discovered these days

But the book is certainly memorable. It is thought-provoking and it irritates the reader in the same way that a piece of grit in an oyster shell irritates the oyster. I suspect it requires multiple readings to properly appreciate it or even to see the joke in its humor. That too lends itself to the perception of being a "classic".

All that said, it still wasn't the winner.. MrsLee, I'm glad that you actually backed the winning title. I'm contemplating whether we should drag out the throne and hand you the sparkly rhinestone tiara.

One brief postscript: The thought crossed my mind last night in bed thinking about this that many people characterize the works of Agatha Christie as being "classic fiction". They would never however consider her stuff to be "classic literature". And I'm not sure that I'd ever drop Christie and Calvino into the same "classic" kind of bucket. (It's not impossible to do so, I suspect, if one were to give it a good deal of thought, but I wouldn't use the same descriptor in categorizing the two authors. I am fairly middle-brow in my tastes.

>99 jillmwo: But wasn't it originally published in 1979? That's the date I was basing my comment upon. (I was actually only a teenager for the first two weeks of that year.)

And I agree that I found parts of it quite irritating indeed. And some of it was so wonderful that when it would suddenly wrench me out of that world and throw me into another that I wasn't enjoying I would get very perturbed.

>100 clamairy: You know, now that you mention it, you may be right. I was writing that post downstairs in something of an off-the-cuff manner and my physical copy of On a Winter's Night, A Traveler is upstairs. I was drawing from my memory fueled only by a single dose of caffeine. I didn't even Google it in the interests of accuracy. (I want to say that I'm embarrassed by my lame-brain idiocy, but not having had sufficient coffee, I may not even be identifying the correct emotion.)

>98 clamairy: >99 jillmwo: >100 clamairy: >101 jillmwo:

I first came across the book in the University Bookshop at Queens University, Belfast, in 1979. It was already receiving great reviews and acclaim at that early stage in its existence. I cannot recall if I bought a copy at that time, but I certainly contemplated buying a copy. It was always a book I had intended to read.

Now, the matter of a classic book. In contemplating this matter I looked up the definition of an antique. There appears to be a degree of consensus that an antique must be over one hundred years old. This flies in the face of the facetious definition of an antique being anything older than oneself.

My looking at the antique definition was for context and in my mind has nothing to do with classifying a book as a classic. I do not believe a book has to be as old as an antique as defined in the above paragraph, to be a classic. In my mind, and I have read at least one article that proffers this approach, that a classic book is one that has stood the test of time and that is still sought after and read. jillmwo's remarks of "The book has had recognized influence and is apt to continue to wield a certain amount of influence over a rising population" are very relevant in defining a classic. If on a winter's night a traveller is 45 years old, but is still generating interest and is on the bookshelves of shops today.

If the age of a book classified it as a classic then every book over a certain age would be a classic. There are plenty of aged books that have been forgotten and will never generate any significant interest. Take for example the George A. Birmingham books I collect. I do not see any of them being regarded as classics. They are interesting in several ways but they are not classics. Agatha Christie's books are classics as they have had a significant influence and are still in demand. Charles Dickens books are clearly classics. They contain wonderful observations, great characters, and portraits of society at the time of their writing.

Books that develop a cult following could, in my mind, be considered classics. They are examples of books that have attracted a group of people who find them significant in some way.

This rambling commentary is a bit of a brain-dump, and unlike jillmwo's musings mine have not had the support of even a single cup of coffee.

By the way, one thing I detest is the launching of a book being accompanied by the marketing hype stating that it is a modern classic.

I hope my contribution to the debate helps with the discussion.

>95 jillmwo: The memory of this article has been niggling at me for the last couple of days. I'd like to read Proust; I'd like to finish Musil's The Man Without Qualities (which I started years ago); I'd like to read Don Quixote; you know the drill. Here's a list of long books of which I've read a couple and would like to read or finish some of the others (I'd give Shantaram a miss, I think). The ones I'd like to read add up to about 15,000 pages; at 100 pages a day I could do that in six months and possibly get in Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell as well. But "A man ought to read just as inclination leads him; for what he reads as a task will do him little good.". Even more but: the Pearl rule. That's a way of reconciling "reads as a task" with "as inclination leads" me, I think. Clearly, if I were to dump, say, Bleak House* after 100 pages, inclination is no longer leading me, and I'd start one of the others, right?

*which I've actually read but would read again.

>103 haydninvienna: I absolutely understand your situation and the dilemma. The problem is perhaps less now of whether I have TIME to read something and instead rather because I am wondering if I'm in the right MOOD for it. (And I say this as I continue evaluating books in boxes to determine whether they should be retained or passed along in order to pare down the size of the collection.)

Oh I totally get the mood thing. Over the years I've learned to strike while it's on me otherwise it changes and maybe the book never gets read. Crazy, but it suits me - when I'm enthusiastic about something, I try to get to it immediately.

>102 pgmcc: Have you given up coffee? Or had the day just gotten away from you? And for what it may be worth, I am still thinking about George Birmingham's The Hymn Tune Mystery. It may not be a classic but it served to shove me down a new path of study/research. If a booik makes one think, it deserves to be noticed (even if not a classic).

>106 jillmwo:
I was never a great coffee drinker. Tea would have been my main hot beverage but I have shunned caffeine in nearly all its demon forms for the past year. Herbal teas are the beverage of choice at home these days.

If a booik makes one think, it deserves to be noticed (even if not a classic).

I strongly agree.

Is "booik" your New York accent showing through, or an attempt at a broad Dublin accent? It is a pretty good phonetic spelling for a Dublin accent.

When you and clamairy were discussing If on a Winter's Night a traveller and commenting on parts of it being irritating, I couldn't help thinking that those are probably the bits I liked most. :-) I do not recall any of it irritating me, but I do remember laughing a lot and enjoying the gyrations of the story... if indeed we can call it a story.

>107 pgmcc: Honestly, as often as you visit this thread, you ought surely to be able to recognize a typo when you see one. Such a frequent occurrence might be one of my claims to fame here.

Do folks in Dublin really pronounce it that way? It doesn't seem as if it would be apt to trip off the tongue in quite the lovely way I think the Irish sound. (Based on my husband's Aunt Maggie's accent.)

>108 jillmwo:
There are many, many accents in Ireland; some very strong and rough, and some more melodious. The very strong Dublin accent would have book pronounce "booo-ik".

In 2007 there was an article in The Evening Herald newspaper, a publication that no longer exists, about the accents of Dublin. It followed the Dublin Area Rapid Transit (DART) train route from its northern terminus in Howth to its southern terminus in Greystones. For each station along the route the article gave an example written phonetically of the local accent. It was very funny and 100% accurate. I think many visitors to Ireland are amazed at how many different accents there are, and even in Dublin people will find a wide variety of accents spoken.

Where is your husband's Aunt Maggie from?

>108 jillmwo:
jillmwo, I have sent you a direct message with a story from my father's life that will let you know how varied accents can be in Ireland. I hope you like it.

>110 pgmcc: Hopefully you saw my response in a DM? My husband is very aware of accents but primarily from the perspective of working in broadcast (where one tries to adapt to a flat, non-regional-specific pronunciation, as if that were possible.)

Notable 2024 Hidden-Under-The-Table or Consultative-Reading-in-the-Background (Non-Fiction)

Bloomsbury Handbook to Agatha Christie - fascinating articles of scholarship on Agatha Christie. Giving the woman her due and seeing her work through a variety of lenses (the State, the Church, life experience on the fringes, etc.) Suited to both the expert as well as the enthusiast.

Routledge Companion to Crime Fiction - approaches crime Fiction through the views of such luminaries as Martin Edwards, J.C. Bernthal, Rebecca Mills, etc. Very clearly scholarly articles and reviews aimed at other scholars. Articles have focus on topics ranging from the victim, the detective, the plot on towards the work of hybridization and adaptation. Heavy on the jargon of literary analysis ands thu primarily targeted to the expert. (Translation: Some of the intended meaning probably eluded me...)

Agatha Annotated - self-published work of historical and/or foreign language references encountered in Christie's work. This initial volume covers just those works published in the 1920s. Intended for the attentive (and curious) reader.

The Importance of Being Poirot - Historian looks at the social history of England throughout the decades of Christie's publishing activity (1920s - 1970s). Equally interesting, at times Black brings in references to other works of detective fiction from other authors. Readable and appropriate to the ordinary reader, but perhaps one familiar with British history (cultural, political, social, etc.)

God and the Little Grey Cells - Highly specialized subject matter, but absolutely wonderful scholarship. Many highlighted passages in this relatively short monograph. Published by a commercial publisher specializing in theology and religious studies since 1821. Suited to both enthusiast as well as experts.

Why was I obsessed with Christie this past year? Got me. Just following a casual inclination and I have no idea what to do with the knowledge acquired through use of the above.

Back with the winner in a bit (lunch being overdue...),

Following up. First of all, I'd intended to mention at least in passing that Agatha Christie wrote verse (as in poetry, except that this really is just verse as opposed to poetry, if you know what I mean.) I know this because I purchased a collection entitled Star Over Bethlehem. And I'm saving you the expense of time and attention while allowing you to sound knowledgeable in conversation. Because, as uncharitable as it may seem, the format just wasn't her forte. There are things Christie was quite good at; this was not one of those things. At the risk of sounding like I'm a horrible snob, a certain amount of cringing was going on.

Reverting back to #112 above -- THE WINNER IS: Ending In A Tie!! I thoroughly enjoyed reading God and the Little Grey Cells. The kind of reading experience where you keep picking it up and reading it and making notes during all the available opportunities. And then you go back again and revisit it. That one was really quite instructive without being dogmatic.

The other winner in this tie is The Importance of Being Poirot. It's entirely different in tone -- that is, the previous title is literary analysis and this one is history -- but equally instructive. I noted above that Jeremy Black was smart enough and knowledgeable enough to weave in other Golden Age titles as appropriate. One gets hooked into the whole overview of the social, economic and political tugs-of-war. I found it quite interesting.

Both of the above have the added plus of being relatively short in terms of page counts.

Info here about the Holly tree of which I had not previously been aware: https://x.com/AliceNebularis/status/1869119719455818140

>114 jillmwo: Very interesting. Lovely photo, too.

Oooh, and this one is all about the Script bibles for Hallmark Christmas movies.
https://stephenfollows.com/p/whats-inside-the-hallmark-tv-movie-bible
Who'dda thunk? Frankly, telling creators "Let Structure Guide Thy Narrative" seems like fairly sound writing advice.

I am charmed.

Speaking of Christmas films we watched the 2019 film Last Christmas. It was much better than the usual saccharin movies about Christmas. It also had a good cast with Michelle Yeoh, Emilia Clarke, Emma Thomson and Henry Golding.

>117 pgmcc: Oh, thank you for this. I've already watched The Family Stone, Elf and Love, Actually, and I was looking for something that I haven't seen yet that wouldn't make me barf. :o)

>118 clamairy: Well, now I HAVE to ask -- what elements in a Christmas movie are most apt to make you barf?

I mean, my husband watches the George C. Scott version of A Christmas Carol while my youngest prefers the Muppet version (but only when it's the complete version with the song "When Love Is Gone" restored to the scene with Belle releasing Scrooge from their engagement.) My eldest is entirely devoted to Elf.

I don't mind Love Actually but haven't been able to enjoy White Christmas in quite a while. (Is that one that makes you barf?) I can still sing the songs from Mr. Magoo's Christmas Carol.

>119 jillmwo: I guess I hadn't thought about what triggers the gag reflex. Anything that's too schmaltzy or treacly, I guess. I don't even try the Hallmark ones. I liked the one with Jack Black and Kate Winslet*, but I have no desire to watch it a second time. Last year was the first time I watched The Family Stone, and I enjoyed it enough to rewatch it this year. I've watched Christmas in Connecticut a couple of times, and it's okay. Isn't Holiday Inn the better (older) film with Bing Crosby signing White Christmas? I still love It's a Wonderful Life, and A Christmas Story. But I'm not ready for those yet. I have a DVD with both versions of the Muppet Christmas Carol on it. But one is widescreen, and the one with the extra song that makes me cry is not widescreen.

*The Holiday

>120 clamairy: We watched The Holiday last weekend. My wife loves it, I had never actually sat through the whole thing before.

As a matter of fact, to further the conversation, Associated Press tweeted out something today about the best holiday movies for every mood:
https://apnews.com/article/best-christmas-movies-1483b45d748a303df3efd2e547870bc...

Although some of those I do wonder about. Whit Stillman's Metropolitan? Sydney Pollack's Three Days of the Condor?

>121 Karlstar: What did you think?

>122 jillmwo: Interesting list. I have seen most of those, and the ones I haven't I'm not particularly interested in, with the exception of Carol. I will second the plug for Klaus, which I watched with my kids last year, or possibly the year before, and enjoyed quite a bit.

>123 clamairy: It was cute, I'd seen enough before to know what was going on. Definitely worth watching.

>122 jillmwo:
I like Three Days of the Condor. It has always been a bit different other movies of that ilk.

By the way, the Conclave film is well worth a watch. Ralph Fiennes is excellent in it.

>122 jillmwo: I tried to find the list and all I see is one of two movies and a bunch of ads.

Just tell me, is LotR on the list? If not, it is defective.

A movie my kids and I used to love is The Lemon Drop Kid with Bob Hope from 1951.

>126 MrsLee: Just for you, I grabbed the list of titles with their categories (as strange as my own categories; see example in #112 above). Sadly, LOTR was not on their list.

Grand Budapest Hotel
Category: A movie that feels like a Christmas movie, but isn’t

Metropolitan
Category: Best Movie for feeling fancy

A Muppets Christmas Carol
Category: Best performance next to felt

The Umbrellas of Cherbourg
Category: Best Christmas cry

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang -
Category: Best LA Christmas Movie

The Holiday
Category: Best House Swapping Fantasy

Three Days of the Condor
Category: A great Christmas thriller not named Die Hard

Klaus
Category: Best Recent Kids Christmas movie

Shaun the Sheep: The Flight Before Christmas
Category: For the under five set

Nobody’s Fool.
Category: Best general holiday-period movie

Carol
Category: For midcentury style and heartbreak

Christmas in Connecticut
Category: The ultimate TCM Christmas movie

Little Women:
For 19th century New England vibes

The Shop Around the Corner The very best Christmas movie
Miracle on 34th Street - ALSO the very best Christmas movie.

As my own holiday update: Some of my packages with gifts for family have either gotten lost or delayed in delivery. Fortunately (?) at least one son is not going to be with us until mid-January so it's okay that his box is still somewhere in Texas. (One for my husband, ordered on November 4, has completely and totally gotten lost or else it's stuck in some shipping container on a ship that's not yet been unloaded or even allowed into port.)

Notable Female Crime Writer (Now Dead)

Definitely E.C.R. Lorac. I have spent massive amounts of time with Christie this year and somewhat less with Phoebe Atwood Taylor, but I felt most comforted when reading titles by Lorac. Five different mysteries by her that I read this year. (Go check out the British Library Crime Classics)

Notable Male Crime Writer (Now Dead)

George A. Birmingham and entirely on the basis of his book, The Hymn Tune Mystery. Gave me all kinds of new things to think about.

>128 jillmwo:
I finished Two-way Murder yesterday. I enjoyed it. Lorac will be an author I keep an eye out for.

I am glad you were pleased with Birmingham’s novel. His other crime novel is quite tied up in politics.

The Simpkins Plot is not a crime novel but it is well worth reading for some lighthearted entertainment.

My husband is laying flat out on his back in bed from moving things around in anticipation of putting up the tree. (We'll do that tomorrow.) I feel guilty. I may ask him if he'd rather skip any additional pending challenges and just do pizza for dinner tonight.

On another topic, a cross-industry has been looking at new guidance for indicating AI-voiced audiobooks: https://www.audiopub.org/naming-guidelines-for-ai-narrated-audiobooks

(Not standards, just a set of best practices.) But there is also this defined bit which I am a little curious about:

AUTHORIZED VOICE REPLICA (AVR)

An AI-based voice that has been generated using authorized/licensed samples from a specific human voice and seeks to replicate that voice.

An example of this would be a publisher working with a deceased author’s estate to create an authorized voice replica based on archive samples of the author’s voice.

Has anyone thoughts on this? I mean, I can see where someone might want to hear Tolkien read his own poetry aloud, but would it also be valued in the context of listening to a novel?

>127 jillmwo: Thanks! Of this I have only seen The Muppets Christmas Carol and The Shop Around the Corner (I agree, a wonderful movie).

My daughter says I need to watch "The Green Knight," which came out a couple of years ago.

>131 MrsLee:
We watched “The Shop Around the Corner” last evening. It was our first time watching it. We loved it.

>130 jillmwo: I hope your husband's back feels better soon.

I guess I don't mind the AI Voice narration, but I don't want it to replace real human narration. I don't think I care for the Authorized Voice Replica option.

>130 jillmwo: & >133 Karlstar: How about the voice of a loved one who is gone? Grandma reading stories?

>130 jillmwo: Ouch. No good deed goes unpunished. I do heartily recommend those over-the-counter pain patches. He should probably still rest the muscles, but at least he won't be in such agony.

>130 jillmwo:
I have a big issue with human beings being removed from every aspect of life. It is already virtually impossible to get to speak to a human being if you are having a problem with an organisation's service or products. People are being removed from manufacturing and customer service. Autonomous vehicles are being looked at for transport and deliveries. Shop assistants have been replaced by self-check-out tills, and some enterprises are using robots as hosts at restaurants.

Now we are having computer programmes replacing human readers.

We have already seen dead actors on Star Wars thanks to CGI.

In relation to hearing a deceased member of the family reading to me, that would be fine until the mispronounce of an unfamiliar word and that could stir up a hell of a lot of intra-family unrest. What was a perfectly loving relationship with a dear departed family member could be destroyed for ever by the pronunciation of scone.

>134 MrsLee: I think I would still say no to that, but I wonder if I'd feel the same if my Grandchildren wanted my voice to read to them.

Husband has fully recovered (honestly, in the words of Monty Python, he wasn't dead yet.) Advil works wonders.

I am neither in favor of nor against the introduction of the Authorized Voice Replica. I posted merely to keep people abreast of current thinking. That said, I think one might be able to replicate the sound of the voice but could one replicate the intonation? Individuals sound one way when calmly reading a descriptive paragraph but then sound differently when doing dialog or reading the creepy, scary bits. At least, I would think they'd have trouble getting that down right.

That said, I'm kind of with pgmcc on current reliance on some automated 'bot or traffic controller. I like talking to humans.

>136 pgmcc: Self-driving cars, (a la Minority Report), seem like a great idea - until hackers with bad intentions manage to crash the system, (see Terra Ignota). Every system can be hacked so, while I love the idea, I'm not sure it can be safely implemented.

>136 pgmcc: I'm with you. I put for human interactions every time for customer service, in spite of the temporary thrill of a robot delivering supplies at a hotel.

I think it would be horrible to listen to my mom's voice and suddenly the intonation or expression was just wrong. Worse than never hearing her voice again. At least in my memories she always sounds like my mom.

>138 jillmwo: So glad to hear of the speedy recovery.

I would never want my dead grandmother's voice speaking to me, though I loved her very much. I've seen that movie and I refuse to be haunted. Plus, she was 102 years old-- let the poor lady rest!

For the next two days or thereabouts, I'm going to focus on family. In the meantime, I wanted to say to all of you how much fun it is to have The Green Dragon as a gathering space. To the lurkers and to those who post regularly, thank you for being here.

I hope that everyone's celebrations of whatever sort are happy, allowing you to spend time with those you care about and creating good memories. For those of you who may be experiencing a difficult time, my heart goes out to you and I hope you're able to experience some calming moment that makes it easier to move forward.

So, in the warmest spirit of the holidays, cheers! Lifting a glass to you and yours and hoping as well for the best in the coming year. (Need someplace to start? Go watch the Muppet Christmas Carol and see if that sparks warmth.)

>142 jillmwo: Yes to all of this. Enjoy yourself, Jill.

BTW, I watched The Shop Around the Corner last night while I was wrapping gifts and found it charming. Thanks to you and to Connie Willis for the suggestion.

>142 jillmwo: Happy holidays to you!

Happy Christmas and all that jazz right back atcha, Jill. May everything be merry and bright and we be gathered in the pub again come the New Year.

Oh, I love spending time with my offspring, but it's also something of a relief when I can sink back down into my "comfy" chair and allow silence to reign. This year, we had Dublin Guiness Cake (major chocolate delight) and throughout the whole of Christmas Day, three of us split a bottle of Proseco flavored by a Maltese liquour (Bajtriv). Nothing like being tipsy on two or three glasses of that when celebrating the season! They'd been to Malta at Thanksgiving and they showed us their slides from the trip -- very blue Mediterranean Sea.

And I am now in a position to read War and Peace, the boxed set in three volumes. (Because the big paperback translation proved challenging when trying to hold it to read...)

>146 jillmwo: the big paperback translation proved challenging when trying to hold it ... Fat paperbacks are really awkward to hold. It's not only their bulk, it's also that the covers aren't stiff so that they need two hands to hold; and they also may not open well. I'm trying to read Bleak House in the fat Penguin paperback, and it has all three problems; and I'm wishing for my old Oxford Illustrated Dickens hardback, which is lost in the mass somewhere. All the problems are worse for MM paperbacks; trade paperbacks seem to be easier to hold.

>146 jillmwo: >147 haydninvienna: I agree, these days I prefer to read longer books in ebook format. I did read The Navigator's Children in hardcover recently, which is 752 pages, but it was oddly lightweight.

>147 haydninvienna: and >148 Karlstar: I may erupt over trim sizes any day now. Whether for hardback or paperback, the sizing is becoming most peculiar. Some of its to do with the cost of paper, but the paperback version of the more recent translation of War and Peace was both too tall as well as too thick for me to comfortably hold in my hands. I was having to put it flat on the couch beside me to reach. I can handle Penguin Classics in paperback pretty well and Knopf hardcovers in the Everyman's Library series are quite manageable. But there are times when I absolutely miss the standard mass market paperback.